Interior design social compact possibilities in tandem with industry realities in South Africa

Abstract

The interior design social compact lies on the fringes of the profession’s body of knowledge, and thus, its lack of centring contributes nuanced multiplicity of interior design professionalisation challenges. Beyond these challenges, (Design) for social innovation for socially responsible design is seen by the study as an end for increased interior design scope and social engagement. Hence, the aim of this study is to establish whether interior design practitioners saw social innovation as a tool for more socially responsible design and whether they have engaged in social innovation and socially responsible design in their practice. The research followed an exploratory qualitative research approach positioned in the interpretive paradigm. The research used semi-structured participant interviews and thematic analysis to explore in-depth insights into the perspectives and experiences of thirteen South Africa-based interior designers and their perceptions of social innovation integration for socially responsible design. Five themes emerged in the data analysis guided by the conceptual framework: Social Problem Identification, Interior Design Process, Social Innovation Process, Socially Responsible Design Process and Social Value. Although the participants’ comprehension was sometimes muddled, the aggregate of their perceptions demonstrated a general grasp of what social innovation and socially responsible design are. Of the advantages of integrating social innovation for socially responsible interior design communicated by the participants, the most significant was the change of collective expectations of interior design by the public and other business professionals. The participants shared that social innovation would favour the discipline by demonstrating to the public and other practitioners that it was about more than shallow design aesthetics. Interior design is, however, about enhancing the human experience and complicated problem-solving.

Keywords:

• corporate social responsibility
• social innovation
• socially responsible design
• social compact
• interior design
• social value

1. Introduction

As far back as the Industrial Revolution, the design field had been operating as the brains behind big corporates and organisations that wanted a competitive edge in their sectors. The prevailing worldview in design has been the financial market and the manufacture of products and merchandise available to be purchased and consumed rapidly. Interior design too was also caught in the trance of feeding the fuel of competition between clients that sought its services as a competitive edge in their respective markets. Primarily, the corporate needs are to sell products and entertain and delight consumers, all the while gaining market share and generating healthy profits (Heller, 2014; D. Smith, 2014; Veiga & Almendra, 2014).

Unfortunately, corporates’ race for more significant market share within a high capitalism structure leaves some long-standing effects, which include unfair distribution of power and wealth, social, monopolistic, monopsonistic inequalities and high materialism. The most prevailing of these inequalities is experienced in hierarchical structures where most of the population experiences the brunt of the problems from monopolised decisions from top-tier structures and the least amount of relief and power to repair them. In many countries around the world, there exists an alarming number of people who live in poverty. Two of the catalysts for the recharged political fanaticism and elevated social pressures causing turmoil in various nations are the declining expectations for basic everyday comforts in a substantial part of the population and the absence of work opportunities for youths (Grimm et al., 2013; Julier, 2013; Manzini & Coad, 2015).

Post-apartheid South Africa is no different, and service delivery protests are regular events (Allan & Heese, 2011). In South Africa, the more significant part of the populace lives beneath the minimum wage and experiences an inferior quality of life legacies left behind by apartheid (Africa & Statistics South Africa, 2014; Luciell & Saheed Bayat, 2019). Apartheid meant prioritising the disenfranchisement of the human rights of the majority to fulfilling the needs of the few. It was a deeply entrenched plan that unravelled throughout centuries starting with explorers, then finally superbly perfected by the administration of apartheid. The effects are visible in the still-present power balance of the economy, public perceptions, social-spatial segregation institutional racism, administrations, and livelihoods of the marginalised in this country (D. Smith, 2014). Saloojee and Saloojee (2011) explain that the disadvantaged and marginalised in society are often excluded by restricted access to valued goods and services. de Villiers (2016) elaborates that the disadvantaged and marginalised in society are often characterised by those who have operated from the fringes of society and lacked educational and economic opportunities. The intentionality with which social problems were constructed over centuries of apartheid, will require just as much intentionality in formulating the design solutions. Grimm et al. (2013) argue that the development of strategies that tackle poverty and social exclusion and which aim at (re)integrating marginalised populations is becoming ever more urgent.

It is essential to reflect on how much of the world is affected/influenced by design. It should also be established how much of that design is used to influence and better the lives of a more substantial portion of the population versus the 10% that can afford design services (McNeil, 2007). Smithsonian’s Cooper-Hewitt of the National Design Museum in New York organised the first “Design for the Other 90%”; a series on humanitarian designs in an exhibition that took place in 2007, focusing on exhibiting design solutions that sought to address the most basic needs of the “other 90%” of the world’s population (Wagner, 2007). The other 90% are those who are not traditionally served by professional designers or interior designers (Breen, 2007; Wagner, 2007). In interior design, it can be said that 90% of people inhabit or interact with an interior space 90% of the time on any given day, yet 10% have the benefit of using the skillset of interior design (the social compact), which is the promotion of health, safety, and well-being in interior spaces (Guerin et al., 2010).

The same can be said of the value of a profession, especially one like interior design where many people spend most of their lives in some form of interior space (Augustin, 2014). It needs to be a design imperative for interior design not only to wait to be sought out for market-driven endeavours or invited to participate in social projects but to create new ways of “doing and being” that help uplift society with its design skills. Interior design skills are already poised to fill this void as the interior design object is equally the human experience as much as it is to design spaces of beauty. Most importantly, the skillset of interior designers can be related to the enhancement of human quality of life and productivity; namely, the safety, health, and welfare of occupants (Boehm & Kopec, 2016; Martin & Guerin, 2010; Moody & Petty, 2012).

Design for the Other 90% helped launch a global discourse about how design could improve the lives of poor, marginalised and overpopulated megalopolis communities around the world (Ramirez, 2011; R. Smith, 2011). Social innovation by nature is concerned with innovation that starts at the grassroots of stakeholders and then proliferates. When the solution addresses the least, it can be argued that the majority will also be accommodated in the solution. Those who are most at risk in society are frequently targeted by grassroots efforts. Generally speaking, the market fails to address the requirements of these subsets of people. In many cases, markets simply don’t recognise the innovation that would be required to reach these consumers. In addition to those that are vulnerable, design for social innovation targets people inside a society where social and economic borders are blurred. These groups are sometimes referred to as the middle class (Vasin et al., 2017).

According to Gray et al. (2014), proficient design creators have commonly based their offerings on the 10% of the world’s general population that can bear the cost of the expense of their products, services and endeavours, yet that has drastically changed in the twenty-first century (Morelli, 2007; R. Smith, 2011; Wagner, 2007). A further surge of creatives, developers, programmers, NGOs and altruists are collaborating with individuals with diminished economic abilities and resources, lending themselves across sectors to discover partnerships and solutions that utilise innovations that launch impoverished networks in the present culture. They show that design can assume an exceptional part in dealing with society’s most compelling issues (R. Smith, 2011).

The impact of design—and especially no design at all—in challenging societal problems has far-reaching consequences creating tensions between the haves and the have not’s (Manzini, 2015; Papanek, 1985; Whiteley, 1993). Therefore, design for addressing pressing societal issues must be a compelling design imperative if the design is to contribute towards bridging the gap of social exclusion and inequality of social groups (Harber & Waxman, 2014). Investing in people makes economies more competitive and improves the quality of life for all. When injustice and inequality reign free, the room is created for feelings of resentment to increase and deepen that dividing society and prohibiting society from achieving more together.

In the 1960s, designers started to think effectively about design’s more extensive ramifications for society. A few strategies have evolved to be mainly focused on “green design” strategies: Industrialism, responsible design, ethical utilisation of resources, environmental strategies, ecology, and women activists’ movements. The human dimension of social challenges has always lagged behind conversations on environmental sustainability; however, the tide appears to be changing in recent years. For design for social innovation permeability and continuity, the discourse goes beyond the ecological issues of design which have subjugated the “sustainable design” narrative, but an inclusive outlook of fiscal, ecological, societal, and cultural agendas should be holistically considered. The whole value chain of interior design, design for social innovation and socially responsible design, creates sustainability because it encourages enhanced service model buy-in and possession, products, services, processes and systems which emerge during the process (Ndovela et al., 2022). As efforts emerge to address challenges in communities and society, many terms have mushroomed to describe the kinds of change that efforts rooted in design strive to make.

Within different design fields, the same socially responsible action has differing terms to describe it with very similar meanings, but there is a definite overlap in their definitions (Animating Democracy, 2016). Lasky and Nasadowski (2015: 42) list a few of these terms that have emerged from the various design fields: “Socially Responsible Design”, “Public Interest Design”, “Design for Social Change”, “Public Design”, “Social Innovation”, “Social Impact Design”, “Social Design” and “Public Service Design”. Although many terms exist, they primarily describe the sole intention to help the disenfranchised in society. On the other hand, and complimentarily the most recognised definition of social innovation is defined in the universal approach as “new solutions (products, services, models, markets, processes) that simultaneously meet a social need (more effectively than existing solutions) and lead to new or improved capabilities and relationships and better use of assets and resources (Balamatsias, 2018). So, social innovations not only benefit society but also increase its collective agency (Caulier-Grice et al., 2012).

According to Smith et al. (2014), this renewed focus on design’s contribution to societal ills creates a platform that helps to address or thwart inequality and the violation of fundamental social justice. The social issues relating to education, crime, healthcare, social inclusion, and fair trade are tackled and can be tackled within the domain of design and social justice (Davey et al., 2005). Power relations often engulf all human society and culture. The idea of social justice, however, constructed, is inhibited by the negotiation between relations of disparity and authority. According to D. Smith (2014), actions towards bridging the divide between inequality and domination should take centre stage in pursuing social justice for human rights, dignity and identity within the design field. Design and interior design can potentially be seen and portrayed as frivolous activities when design practice is out of sync with the purpose of social justice and human dignity (Buchanan, 2001). Buchanan (2001) argues that design finds purpose and its heritage in the values and constitutional life of a country and its people.

Design, at its core, is grounded in human dignity and human rights. However, as Smith, Lommerse et al. (2014) point out, there are contending thoughts of social equity and contending ways that society addresses human development. But the consensus is that design is often lobbied to help create power relations in society rather than solve them. The research argues that this is the fertile ground for interior design to help swing the pendulum in the direction of social equity.

Victor Papanek is heralded as the pioneer of this new design outlook geared towards socially responsible design. In his book, Design for the Real World—Human Ecology and Social Change—which is affectionately known by Whiteley (1993: 98) as the “bible of the responsible design movement”—that design should be meaningful with the persistent effort of deliberately imposing far-reaching societal order. Papanek (1985) continues to say that the only remarkable thing about design is how design relates to people. Papanek believed that designers’ skills were misdirected and underutilised in designing miscellaneous human objects rather than the genuine work required to make the world a better place (Melles et al., 2011; Morelli, 2007). Although Papanek wrote the book mostly from an industrial design perspective, which was his profession, his book is relevant and pressing across all design professions (Rawsthorn, 2011).

Pable and Waxman (2014) emphasise that the indicator of societal social progress is how society treats its most impoverished and powerless people. Helping to protect disadvantaged people in the community is not just an ethical imperative, but a practical one. Failing to invest in people who don’t have access to education and educational institutions to obtain the skills they need to succeed, is a failure to invest in human capital which is the driving force of society.

Interior design is undergoing significant changes in the form of the professionalisation of the industry. The renovation is intended to give interior design clout in recognition when paired with its fellow design professions, namely, architectural design, industrial design, product, landscape, graphic design, fashion design and urban design (Pable, 2009; Pable & Waxman, 2014). Historically, interior design was perceived, not only by the public but by peer professional bodies, to be a hobby of self-expression, decorative and superficial decor for “bored housewives”, especially profoundly well-to-do ladies who served their wealthy and celebrated counterparts (Moody 2012: 23).

This view emphasised interior design as “feminine” as a means of describing it as “lesser” when compared to other professions (Havenhand, 2004; Lees-Maffei, 2008; Matthews & Hill, 2011; Moody et al., 2015; White, 2009). The most prominent history of interior design can be traced back to domestic applications which have perpetuated its misrepresentation (Belis et al., 2014; Lees-Maffei, 2008; De Vos et al., 2015). However, the industry has evolved from the early beginning of the 1930s and professional licencing in 1993 in America to a complex profession that affects human behaviour (Havenhand, 2004 and Augustin, 2014). It is this unrecorded and un-officiated evolution of interior design, coupled with public and professional perceptions of interior design, that has caused the interior design profession to contend for its seat at the proverbial table of professional recognition (Boehm & Kopec, 2016; Globus, 2010; Moody et al., 2015).

Much work has been undertaken to professionalise interior design, notably the establishment of the body of knowledge by leading global organisations and authors (Interior Design Education Council, 2011). The professionalisation journey of interior design unearthed many overlooked or underdeveloped aspects of interior design. These overlooked aspects were the important concepts and pillars of the profession, namely the social compact and unique value proposition of interior design. The interior design social compact and unique value proposition are intertwined as they one bolster the other. The social compact included the ethical practice of the profession as well as its responsibility towards society (Anderson et al., in press). Such aspects include the design for the other 90% or the unpacking of the social implications or contributions of interior design. In essence, the journey to professionalisation has been one of not only identifying the definition and role of interior design in the status of the profession but also understanding the full extent of what interior design is and what it can or should contribute to the broader population (Guerin et al., 2010).

The call is for (interior) design to respond to these social problems by utilising design skills for more socially responsible design, rather than just market-driven projects. To an ever-increasing extent, the role of designers is being tested to have an affecting change on the world and local communities they interact with by applying their design skills for the betterment of the larger society (Alexander, 2017). These new roles demand that interior designers no longer work in professional silos but start to venture beyond interior design borders into industries, sectors, and professionals previously in tandem with interior designers. (Heller & Vienne, 2003; Martin & Guerin, 2010; Smith, Beeck et al., 2014; Yee et al., 2013).

Social innovation and design for social innovation are promising fields and methods to help catapult designers from a bystander in the broader discourse of social problems to contributors to social solutions. Naturally, in interior design, as in all design fields, social innovation is the shift from the interior designer as an expert to the interior designer as a creative transformer (Heller, 2014; Manzini, 2015).

2. Conceptual framework

The premise of this study is that social innovation, when merged with interior design, makes interior design become more socially responsible and can contribute additional perspectives related to the growth of the interior design social compact. Studies show that the process of professionalisation influences interior design’s social compact and the negotiation thereof (Khan & Königk, 2019). The reverse is also true: The lack of social compact is a threat to a profession’s efforts towards professionalisation. Society grants a profession prestige, trust, autonomy, self-regulation and competitive financial support in the expectation that the profession will in return be competent, selfless, and ethical and meet the specific individual and societal needs in the services they provide. The inability to illustrate this mutual benefit results in the illegitimacy of a profession (Abbott, 1983; Anderson et al., 2023, 2007; Sullivan, 2005; Wilensky, 1964). Therefore, this framework focuses on linking the relationships between the concepts mentioned. However, social innovation and socially responsible design in the literature, especially in the South African context, and how it can influence the interior design social compact, is underexplored in interior design practices (Lekhanya, 2019).

The conceptual framework of a study is the mechanism that may carry a research study premise or endorse it. The conceptual context illustrates and outlines the belief that demonstrates why the question of the study is present and how it interlinks (Tashakkori & Teddlie, 1998). The following conceptual framework for Social Innovation Integration into Interior Design, as demonstrated in Figure Figure 1 is designed to carry and endorse the implied relationships between interior design, social innovation, and socially responsible design. The theoretical underpinning used in developing the conceptual framework is Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. According to Perolini (2011), interior design core values and practices have an identical implication to Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, where design has an equivalent ranking; that of Functionality, Reliability, Usability, Proficiency and Creativity. Hence, through the adaptation of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, the conceptual framework suggests that the mechanics of interior design are already in line with those of social innovation, which is a vehicle for socially responsible design. Thus, becoming a tool to help interior design’s social compact (Shields & Hassan, 2006). The following diagram Figure Figure 1 shows the relationship of the concepts that make up the conceptual framework, what propels them and how they are related.

Figure 1. Conceptual framework for social innovation integration into interior design (Source: Ndovela et al., 2022, p. 64).

Social problems are commonplace and often embedded in every aspect of civil society. People witness, are affected or interact with some type of social problem on an almost daily basis. Social needs or problems are those that affect a large group of people negatively, often requiring to be addressed and a solution provided usually by governmental bodies or NGO’s (Barkan, 2012; Loseke, 2017; Rwomire, 2001). Within interior design, the premise to create significant social impact is intertwined with the global discourse of interior design’s professionalisation(Anderson et al., 2007; Khan & Königk, 2019). A practice must persuade the public that it is trustworthy in terms of professional legitimacy to obtain the benefits of professionalisation, a secure title and a business monopoly (Sullivan, 2005; Wasserman et al., 2000; Wilensky, 1964). As with other professions, doing good or the social compact is a mandatory part of the profession, and in interior design, it has been a contested issue. The interior design profession has brought into question what the unique social value proposition of interior design is (Globus, 2010; Khan & Königk, 2019). Hence, social problems offer a platform for interior design’s social compact to be expanded and expounded, including the problem of changing lifestyles and livelihoods (Lucas, 2015; Martin & Guerin, 2010; Ndovela et al., 2022).

Along with more conventional theories, namely account description theory, semeiology, phenomenology and critical theory (Perolini, 2011). The theory of cultural meaning speaks to interior design by helping interior design help individuals and cultural groups build a sense in their daily lives (Königk 2015). It is within these very cultural constructs that our lives play out and that complex social issues or wicked problems manifest and take centre stage. The most important goals of interior design are not graphical, technological, product-orientedness or materialism, but rather interiority. Interiority can be characterised as a mechanism intrinsic to a person’s interpretations representing a single consciousness of a person’s universe and a psychologically relevant connection to the environment in a manner unique to the existence of the subject. These mechanisms involve the requirement for reflecting on someone’s life experiences internally and a language-funded interpretation of this knowledge that enables personal experiences to be shared with other people (Perolini, 2011; Königk 2015). Hence, interior design’s scope of the interior has expanded from the typical spatial configurations reflecting taste and embellishment to the portray of individual life, personal experience, intimate interactions, people’s beliefs and their possessions.

The interior design process is a multi-stage programme that is iterative at times (Poldma, 2009; Zeisel, 2006). Interior design projects are often initiated by external parties who seek out the services of interior designers for their respective projects that require complex spatial solving and brand establishment. However, the interior designer’s ability to shift to new rules that require different design responses is the nature of social innovation. Each social innovation process is unique, with unique people groups and variables that require adjustments from designers. When confronted with these unfamiliar circumstances, the interior designer must research, study, and understand their contexts and respond accordingly and carefully. Once the interior designer is adequately aware of the historical, cultural, regional and local context of the project, only then can they move on to the brief appraisal and definition of the project. During this stage, the interior designer is acquainted with the stakeholders, the clients, and the end-users to make sure that their human experience is enhanced within the design project. Following close behind is the development of the client’s brief to ensure that the contextually appropriate solutions are provided through a creative, technical and holistic brief.

The social innovation leg towards social value for the interior design business and society at large would have begun already with interior design methods. Interior design processes used to complete a finished interior design product are similar to social innovation processes and share common characteristics, such as the nonlinear nature of the design process, collaborative efforts amongst different stakeholders and professionals and design thinking for problem-solving (Manzini, 2015). When interior design is plugged into social innovation or design for social innovation, it utilises social innovation tools like design thinking to empathise, define, ideate, prototype, test and implement the solution for the identified social problem being addressed (Brown & Wyatt, 2010; Dam & Siang, 2018; Docherty, 2017).

Social value can be defined as social gains by attempts to tackle the world’s most pressing social ills (Phills et al., 2008). These benefits can be social, commercial or ecological and may contribute to marginalised social classes or communities. But, most significantly, they must reach beyond the private gain and optimising profit that drives conventional business practices (Choi et al., 2018; Mulgan et al., 2007; Phills et al., 2008). Social value is created in design for social innovation, as empowerment occurs due to co-design and co-production efforts, where designers and stakeholders should see themselves as constructive improvement agents and the end-users are empowered to see themselves as architects of their own futures and realities (Heller, 2014; Lucas, 2015; Manzini, 2015). The co-design, networking and sharing of lived experiences during design for social innovation expose gaps in economic and cultural markets that can be explored and exploited. During the social innovation process, new roles, products, services, models and markets are revealed, and new sustainable futures are recognised (Dias & Partidário, 2019). The design for the social innovation process creates a more dynamic and broad spectrum of customers and their affiliates for designers and stakeholders, with whom they would not have traditionally had contact (Cox et al., 2017).

3. Research methodology

For this research, the aim was to investigate interior designers’ perceptions of social innovation for socially responsible design and to establish whether social innovation can be integrated into interior design practice. To achieve this aim, the study put forward three research questions as follows:

Question 1: What is the current understanding of social innovation and socially responsible design in the selected group of interior designers?

Question 2: How have the selected group of interior designers been engaging in socially responsible design?

Question 3: How does the selected group of interior designers perceive they could engage in social innovation to be more socially responsible?

The study employed a qualitative research approach (De Vos et al., 2015), as the aim is to achieve breadth in the research inquiries. The research population are South Africa-based practising interior designers, and thirteen participants were selected from the population using convenience sampling, refer to Appendix A for demographic makeup. According to Etikan et al. (2016), convenience sampling is a valuable method in cases of large population groups whereby randomisation is near impossible. To ensure credibility and focused generalisability, a homogenous convenience sampling was engaged to recruit participants. Participants approached were screened for their interior design qualifications to make sure they meet the specifications laid down by the African Institute of the Interior Design Professions (IID), even though they were or were not registered members of the IID. The IID defines a professional interior designer as anyone who has a full diploma or degrees from a certified educational institution for a minimum period of three years, has satisfied its professional competence and adequacy and, according to the conditions laid down, has been practising for at least six years (The African Institute of the Interior Design Professions, 2020).

3.1. Data collection

The sample for this study included 13 active interior designers in South Africa. The interviewees in the study were selected using a non-probabilistic sampling method, namely a hybrid of convenience and linear snowball sampling methods. The thirteen selected participants were invited to participate in interviews, which took place between February and March 2020. Open-ended questions were used to encourage participants to construct answers and share their thoughts and understanding. The collected data consisted of semi-structured 60 to 120-minute interviews, digitally captured using an audio recording unit. The interview format contained an initial series of open questions aimed at gaining a comprehensive view of the participant’s understanding of social innovation and socially responsible design in their own vernacular. Refer to Appendix B and Appendix C for sample particpant interview transcript and interview guide. A set of more focused questions followed, assisted by photo-elicitation as a catalyst and foundation for conversation (Harper, 2002; Magnini, 2006; Van Auken et al., 2010). Throughout the data collection process, a key priority was to remain self-aware, flexible, and non-prescriptive. Interviewees included eleven females and two males. This spread reflects the gender disparity in interior design, where 70–95% of interior designers are female, yet only 1.7% reach the executive level (Contract, 2020). Despite actively seeking a more balanced gender spectrum, no other male designers within the participants’ networks could be found or meet the criteria to participate during the research period.

3.2. Data analysis

To reflect the relationship between interior design, social innovation and socially responsible design, the study employed thematic analysis (see Figure Figure 2) to explain the vast quantities of data by building order and finding categories of meaningful data (Bogdan & Biklen, 2003; Marshall & Rossman, 1999). During the data identification and summarization, trends of importance are being exposed (Bailey & Alpern, 2006; Cohen et al., 2007; Saldana, 2013), which according to (Gibson & Brown, 2009), take the form of terms, phrases, and paragraphs. Thus, the data processing required inspection, selection, categorisation, assessment, contrast, synthesis action and consideration of coded data and raw data complementary to the conceptual framework (Neuman, 1997).

Figure 2. Thematic analysis process (Source: Ndovela, 2021, p. 117).

Gibson and Brown (2009) advise that in data analysis, there has to be a pursuit of variance as one of the core features of the thematic analysis. The researcher searched for uniformity and exclusive “intel” that distinguishes variations and characteristics in the participants’ experiences while simultaneously deciding whether the details applied to the matter under review were significant. To do this, the researcher used the data analysis process explained by Braun and Clarke (2006), which occurs in six phases; namely, data familiarisation, initial coding generation, search for themes based on initial coding, review of themes, theme definition and labelling (Maguire & Delahunt, 2017).

The study aimed at defining general statements and connections in the meanings of interior designers’ perceptions of social innovation for socially responsible design (Leedy & Ormrod, 2001; Marshall & Rossman, 1999). Thus, the best approach, because of the exploratory nature of the study, was to thematically sort through the data defining and interpreting significance trends in the datasets (Herzog et al., 2019). Figure Figure 2 illustrates the thematic analysis process that occurred in the research between the six stages of thematic data analysis.

4. Result

From the accounts of the participants and guided by the conceptual framework, five themes come to light from the research (Social problem identification, Interior Design Process, Social Innovation Process, Socially Responsible Design Process, and Social Value). The themes are identified and described in the following text. An account in some situations of a theme refers to the substance of a different theme. The researcher noted that it is often not easy to differentiate and separate related subjects. Participants’ lives and understandings cannot be precisely described in frames since the researcher observes that any component of the participants’ lives has implications and results in other shared factors.

4.1. Social problem

At first, the participants found it hard to conceptualise the word “social” in both the terms social innovation and socially responsible design. It appeared that their understanding of social problems was limited; however, the participants were conscious of the fact that South Africa had many social challenges. The participants’ views ranged from “social” as a community, community interaction, communal spaces, or societal socio-economic groupings. The predominant understanding of social change was its relationship to socially responsible design and the need to design for a changing society as society progressed and advanced. The participants found it hard to conceptualise how interior design could create social change and solve problems outside of interior design-related projects. Although they could not immediately provide how interior design could make a change, the participants were confident that their interior design skillset would allow them to contribute an integral role in solving social ills, demonstrating an overall willingness that is now shrouded by lack of exposure played a huge role in their unawareness. The participants were aware that they lived in a society that had a pressing and blatant social problem that required interventions. Although not often leading the way in social innovation and socially responsible design, interesting to note was the fact that they didn’t know what the interior design social compact was or what the unique value proposition from interior designers outside typical interior design projects. It was also important to note that participants were aware that even if they did not step in, change was happening and would continue to happen, but they could help accelerate and perfect the process to ensure that socially responsible design was executed well.

4.2. Interior design process

The research participants had a firm hand in the interior design process. This is not surprising as this is what they are trained to do, and practice has reinforced some elements and brought mastery of others. The participants were familiar with the design process that ultimately culminated in the client’s vision and occupation of a supportive environment. The participants were well versed in the procedures that bring about a roadmap that was charted by preparing ordered and orchestrated documentation of all design components, choices and decisions taken along the way for each client. The roadmap means that all professionals, contractors, tradespeople, and suppliers know the design proposal and construction requirements thoroughly. Participants were also clear and adamant that enhancing the human experience was at the heart of what interior designers do. The designers described the interior design as subtle, and that good design is often not seen (as in you can’t point to one specific element) but is felt. Interior design, by nature, is human-centred, and the premise from which it operates is to make sure that all user needs are met. The interior design participants, although not mentioning the words health, safety and well-being mentioned in the building of the body of knowledge set up by Martin and Guerin (2010), through the use of words like psychological, mental, building regulations, behaviour and physiological implied the notion of enhancing human life by making sure that occupants of interior spaces stay safe, healthy, and well. Similarly, participants were aware that an interior design project required research and understanding of the context in which the project is to be executed, as it is one of the contributing factors to the value of interior design.

4.3. Social innovation process

The whole exploration into interior designer perceptions of the social innovation process was hampered by the 13 participants’ lack of understanding of what social innovation was. There was an even split among the participants regarding the awareness level of how many interior designers knew of social innovation and socially responsible design. The leading interpretation was around innovation-technology rather than social. Being aware of the word innovation made them think along the lines of technology, but it was the social that threw them for a loop when related to innovation. One mentioned that is what using WhatsApp to order at a restaurant. Most participants, even those aware of social innovation and socially responsible design, expressed that it was not something they thought about or frequently discussed in their places of work. Although the participants had not heard of social innovation or socially responsible design, they could break down the concepts to make sense of them. The most prevalent sources of knowledge were Internet platforms—notably, video streaming sites and blogs—followed by interior design-related working knowledge acquisition.

The participants illustrated knowledge of co-design and facilitation through collaboration in their daily office or studio practice with their senior designers, people within their companies or industry professionals. Admittedly, the designers expressed that co-design in their practice was minimal as their design work was often instructional by the employer or senior designer. Through photo-elicitation and precedent studies presented to the participants, they were able to conceptualise that social innovation was a process that required a new or improved solution to be provided for the end user. The participants reflected on how the precedents showed better solutions to the problems they were addressing than solutions they had seen in the past. All the participants were confident that they could not only be a part of the team that undertook similar socially innovative projects but could lead the projects. They mentioned that interior design in social innovation and socially responsible design was unfortunately not as bright and colourful as mainstream interior design, as such projects did not allow for exuberance, but rather in social innovation, “form” should follow “function”. This could be a hard transition for current practising interior designers as these kinds of projects need a new way of being an interior designer, especially I you have never been exposed or have no frame of reference. Additionally, without extensive support at the start of working in design for social innovation, the transition. Incorporation could be quite daunting and isolating.

4.4. Socially responsible design process

The whole exploration into interior designers’ current engagement in socially responsible design and how it happens was limited by the participants’ lack of concise understanding of socially responsible design and educational and work exposure—they demonstrated a lack of engagement. In contrast to the social innovation understanding among the participants, the socially responsible design was often understood as the balance between people and the environment. Other views included designing to help people and communities, developing existing solutions, environments, design consequences, responsible gentrification and social development, and spaces for interactions. The most predominant understanding of socially responsible design was that of designing to help people and the community. The interior designers expressed that there was no limit to the scope and types of projects that they could be involved in regarding social innovation and socially responsible design. Although limitations were externally imposed and where they faced challenges and limitations with their skillsets, through co-design with other peers and professionals, they would be able to problem-solve and overcome the obstacles that lay ahead of the social process. The participants were concerned that the process of integration of socially responsible design could be problematic for existing and practising interior designers. However, the participants conceptualised that through education, on-the-job training/education, funding, benefits, awareness through a professional body, collaboration, social media, and personal convictions, social innovation and socially responsible design could be used to encourage interior designers to engage more in social innovation to become more socially responsible.

4.5. Social value

Even though the participants did not have a clear understanding of what social innovation and socially responsible design were, and even though their engagement exposure had been minimal, based on the precedent studies, they were able to see the value of interior designers and the entire design profession integrating social innovation for socially responsible design into mainstream interior design. In addition to new markets, sustainability and people empowerment identified in the literature and conceptual framework, the interior designers also identified other social values, including overall meaning for the interior designer, professional fulfilment, new networks, new roles, and new relationships. For the profession, there would be an opportunity to shift public perceptions, gaining wider recognition and peer approval. The user would benefit from an enhanced human experience, enhanced capacity to act and inclusion. The participants also said that social innovation and socially responsible design increased the interior designer’s scope and value offering. Just as there is in residential design, commercial design, hospitality design and corporate design, which each respectively present the different skills that the interior designer has, social innovation and socially responsible design also accentuate current skills that the interior designers already have and increase their skillsets.

5. Discussion

In answering the research questions in this discussion, the researcher explains and analyses details of the expressions of the participants that were gathered into themes, guided by the conceptual framework that has reflected their understanding and perceptions of social innovation integration in interior design for socially responsible design. Linking literature to participants’ responses regarding social innovation for socially responsible design demonstrates the prospect of utilising a conceptual framework to underline the need for the inclusion of social innovation in design education and professional practice. Essentially, the findings were driven by the research aim and questions of the study underlined below:

Aim: The study sought to establish whether social innovation can be integrated into interior design and practised more as an ethos for socially responsible design.

Research Question 1: What is the current understanding of social innovation and socially responsible design in the selected group of interior designers?

Research Question 2: How have the selected group of interior designers been engaging in socially responsible design?

Research Question 3: How does the selected group of interior designers perceive they could engage in social innovation to be more socially responsible?

In terms of the first research question, the participants’ responses mimic the contested landscape of definitions of social innovation, which Pol and Ville (2009) stated is contested and broad. This misunderstanding is not uncommon with social innovation and socially responsible design. Coupled with the participants’ lack of exposure to social innovation and socially responsible design, their current understanding is reflective of the social innovation landscape. As shown in Table 1 below, participants struggled with expressing their views and understanding the term. The selected interior designers explained social innovation as ranging from technological innovations, different clients, design for a broader spectrum of people, new design and new ways for people to relate to each other. There was a lot of confusion and uncertainty amongst the participants about the meanings of social innovation and socially responsible design. For example, Participant 12 said:

Social innovation. I’m actually not too sure. I mean, I’ve heard, I’ve heard it. One not too sure what the definition would be uhm I mean, I get the innovation part, but what it has to do so much with social innovation, um, maybe design that I’m actually not sure. PT12 [4:10]

Table 1. Level of understanding of social innovation amongst participants

Level of understanding of Social Innovation	Good	Average	Poor/None
Number of participants	1 of 13	3 of 13	9 of 13
Participant names	PT6	PT3, PT5, PT8	PT1, PT2, PT4, PT7, PT9, PT10, PT11, PT12, PT13

Of the participants, PT6 had the most accomplished understanding of the concept of social innovation.

PT6 [4:05] And then the social innovation, uh, basically, um, new ideas, um, new technologies, maybe new manufacturing techniques, new materials, um, that are, um, addressing, um, social what, what.

It is noted that amongst their definitions, they made mention of the terms “social entrepreneurship” and “innovation”, which could be directly linked to the entrepreneurial competition they were trying to enter. The sum of the answers amongst the selected interior designers covers the scope of what social innovation is but individually, the interior designers had a very vague to general understanding of what social innovation meant and involved. According to Ayob et al. (2016), social innovation is a challenging and reasonably uncertain term. Grimm et al. (2013) and Ziegler (2017) echo the same view stating that the meaning of social innovation remains ambiguous and vague.

As for the second research question, the findings show that most interior design participants had not engaged in social innovation or socially responsible design projects, apart from their second-year university-community engagement projects (see, Table 2). Of most interest is that the participants were unaware and did not know personally of interior designers who sought out social innovation and socially responsible design projects. The participants mentioned that conversations and activities around socially responsible design, let alone social innovation, were not common in their design spheres or companies. Eight of the interior design participants held that social innovation is outside of the mainstream interior design work that interior designers do daily at their respective companies and must be taken on as a side project. Interestingly, PT6 asserted that current design education perpetuated egos, and this outlook was counterintuitive to social innovation. Social innovation requires “next level maturity” and requires each participant to look beyond their ideas and agenda for the benefit of the next person in the process.

PT6 [44:06] That’s scary. Yeah. Is it going to happen? How is it going to happen? Will it require me to work 24 hours? Will I have to read books? Will I have to sit in a room with professors? Um, well, I have to ask people field research, go and knock on doors. You know, people who are busy with their lives doing whatever, getting ready for shopping or doing laundry, and me disturbing them, you know, will I to stop people in the road, will I have to be in an uncomfortable position that compromises my ego. That puts me in a, in a, in a fragile, vulnerable position. That I may be perceived in a certain way that I don’t want to be perceived. Maybe people are gonna look at me like I’m struggling, and I don’t want to be looked at like that.

Table 2. Engagement with social innovation and socially responsible design amongst participants

Engagement with Social Innovation and Socially Responsible Design	Never	University 2nd year community project	Post University
Number of participants	2 of 13	8 of 13	3 of 13
Participant names	PT10, PT7	PT1, PT2, PT4, PT5, PT8, PT9, PT12, PT13	PT11, PT3, PT6

Those who had engaged in social innovation projects had done so in their own capacity, through friends or in partnership with organisations outside of interior design. The interior design participants’ non-engagement in socially responsible design or social innovation hinders the processes outlined in the conceptual framework. Until they participate in social innovation and socially responsible design, the conceptual framework cannot be tested, and the relationships between the social problem, interior design process, social innovation process, socially responsible design and social value cannot be validated.

Lastly, with respect to the third research question, the findings show that there is typically a lack of focus on social innovation, socially responsible design, corporate social responsibility, and social dimensions of design in local higher education learning and interior design firms. This gap is demonstrated by the lack of awareness and engagement in the study participants; a general sense of the fear of the unknown and ignorance appears to be the dominating factors for this trend. It is an undisputed fact that the term “social innovation” is used in various fields and overlaps meanings with other design movements and economic business outlooks. “Social” design professionals have struggled to explain and express their method by simply making clear what is that they do (Lasky, 2013). This outlook by interior designers that they should wait for an invitation is indicative of the perception that most interior design projects rely on interior design services to be sought out. Interior designers are often referred to or sought out by members of the industries for their design service, but seldom do interior designers actively seek projects. Suppose interior designers feel that they are under a cloud of misconception. In that case, they need to actively take steps to avail themselves and seek out social innovation projects; otherwise, they run the risk of never being invited to participate.

It is interesting to note that the majority of the interior design participants said that socially responsible design and social innovation should be made mandatory in mainstream interior design and as an integral part of interior design services (See, Table 3). PT2, PT6 and PT12 said that by making social innovation and socially responsible design mandatory, greater emphasis would be placed on its integration and eventual adoption as an interior design ethos.

Table 3. Participants’ perception on engagement with socially responsible design and social innovation

Engagement with Socially Responsible Design	Mandatory	Optional	Specialised
Number of participants	12 of 13	8 of 13	1 of 13
Participant names	PT11, PT10, PT6, PT2, PT8, PT9, PT4, PT12, PT3, PT1	PT5, PT7	PT13

6. Conclusion

The value of this research was concentrated on whether the selected interior designers believed that social innovation could be integrated into interior design as an ethos for socially responsible design. The study shows that the current understanding of the selected interior designers was muddled and a little confused. However, with prompting and guidance they were able to understand and distinguish between social innovation and socially responsible design. The study further showed that indeed the selected interior designers thought that it could be integrated as an ethos for socially responsible design. But the majority of the elected interior designers had not integrated let alone engaged with social innovation or socially responsible design in their practice or places of work. The selected interior designers did perceive that social innovation and socially responsible design were aligned with interior design values and with the right kind of support and resource availability they could engage the concepts. The research then went on to formulate and analyse the alignment of interior design values to (design) social innovation values. The research demonstrates that the conceptual framework offers potential for the integration of social innovation for socially responsible design in interior design. However, the framework cannot function effectively where there is a lack of knowledge of social innovation and socially responsible design, and a lack of frameworks that enable interior designers to feel equipped and supported when engaging in social innovation and socially responsible design. To shift interior design from social problem identification, the social compact to social value, re-evaluation is required. The re-evaluation is necessary to orientate, raise awareness and empower interior designers with social innovation and socially responsible design methods. The findings highlight that the empowerment of the interior designer with social innovation methods will affect the interior design social compact and help amongst others legitimise the interior design profession. Social innovation and socially responsible design call for interior designers’ portfolios to improve beyond typical interior design clients and projects. They ought to include the capacity to communicate with other fields, experts, suppliers, customers, partners, cultures, and issues outside of the area of interior design, to demonstrate not just the conventional core interior design capabilities, but capabilities for innovation.

Disclosure statement

No potential conflict of interest was reported by the author(s).

Additional information

Funding

This work was supported by the Durban University of Technology.

Appendix A

Demographic Information of the 13 Selected Interior Design Participants

Table

Demographic category	Representation	Number
Race	White/ Caucasian	8
	Black/African	5
Age	25–30	5
	30–35	3
	35–40	3
	40–45	2
Gender	Male	2
	Female	11
Highest Education	Bachelor’s Degree (B-tech)	5
	National Diploma	6
	Post-Graduate Degree	1
	High School graduate	1
Employment	Full-time (40hrs/week)	7
	Self-employed	5
	Unemployed	1
Interior Design Experience	1–2 yrs	1
	3–4 yrs	2
	7–8 yrs	3
	9–10 yrs	2
	+10 yrs	3
	+15 yrs	2
Interior Design Project Experience	Retail	6
	Corporate	6
	Commercial	5
	Residential	9
Interior Design Position Held	Mid-junior	3
	Mid-senior	1
	Senior	1
	Executive/Managerial	6
Company/Organisation siza	1–2	6
	3–4	3
	7–8	1
	+10	3

Appendix B.

Participant Interview Transcript

Research interview transcriptSocial innovation for socially responsible design

Participant 6

Participant Code: Six (PT6)

Date: 3 March 2020Time: 17:23

Location: Durban University of Technology City Campus (Postgraduate lab)

Audio Length: 1:53:37

Interviewer: [0:00] Yeah. Take that off.

Participant 6: [0:05] Tear that off.

Interviewer: [0:08] Yeah. And then I’ll keep this, and then that’s for you to keep, and I’ll sign it as well as proof. That I, I told you everything that’s involved in the research, which I will do now. Let me make sure this thing is recording quickly. And record. Okay.

Participant 6: [0:32] yimilo onuka ugwayi (do I smell of cigarettes?), Yazi, yazi (you know, you know) I’m in an office lekade kubehnwa khona (where they were smoking) everybody smokes in that office.

Interviewer: [0:40] It could be one you

Participant 6: [0:40] Yes, I’m in an office everyone in that office smokes inside the office. Not outside the office

Interviewer: [0:46] Oh no.

Participant 6: [0:47] Yeah, so that’s why I smell like cigarettes.

Interviewer: [0:49] Oh no. Does uMbele wakho (does your Mbele) have an H?

Participant 6: [0:50] No, no, H no. no no H. And I was jho uX useyabhema?(jho is Xolisa now smoking?)

Interviewer: [0:56] oh no, it’s on you bra. Three twenty. We need someone else to witness this. Maybe sizoya kisisSenele (we’ll go to Ms Sanele), but that’s for you to keep with this letter. In letter I am finding out whether social innovation can be viewed more as an ethos rather than as fragmented projects, right? The objective is to closely examine how interior designers’ perceptions of socially responsible design and the supplementation can contribute to the increase engagement in scope of social innovation for interior design in South Africa.

And so, lots of it doesn’t matter is inclusion means, and why would you be a participant? Because you studied interior design, you have a degree, um, what’s this, study procedures are we meeting for an interview with the researcher that the task will take no more than an hour, possibly two sessions depending on a follow up if required.

If you answer and then, there’s things that I want to clarify I’ll call. You don’t have to come see me again unless you want to. Duration. Like I said, it’s an hour. You are sitting quite comfortably. There’s no way you can fall, break yourself and get harmed. Benefits there’s nothing except maybe the interior design industry.

If they read the document, they might benefit something from learning [2:00] Compensation you’re not getting any money. Voluntary at any time you want to pull out, you can pull out. You are going to be participant six in the research cause you’re the sixth person I’ve interviewed. That’s how in the research will be identified, but nobody will know who participant six is only you would know.

Um, if you have, it will be conducted in English if you have any, if you want more information or have any complaints, these are all the contact details for all my supervisors, myself and the DUT research committee. And then you signed the consent already that I have and that’s it.

Participant 6: [2:29] Yeah

Interviewer: [2:30] That’s for you. Okay. I didn’t even ask. Do you want to be video recorded by the way? Um, it’s not going to be seen by anyone in except me

Participant 6: [2:52] Okay. [3:00] Maybe it’s just like

Interviewer: [3:14] Have you heard of social innovation and socially responsible design before? Have you heard of either one of these terms before?

Participant 6: [3:29] I’ve heard of, I think it was like social entrepreneurship, mmm but not necessarily, I’ve heard of innovation. I’m not, I’ve never heard or maybe mhlamphe (maybe) I didn’t pay attention of your socially responsible design.

Interviewer: [3:51] Okay. Um, if you were to guess at these two terms, what would do you think they mean?

Participant 6: [4:04] I feel like ngidinga (I need) like a board understanding Kasocial (of social).

Interviewer: [4:07] Okay. Let’s just start at social. What what’s your first thought when you think about social?

Participant 6: [4:12] I think for me, I think it’s something that benefits uhm the community. That’s the only thing. That just comes up.

Interviewer: [4:21] Okay. Yeah.

Participant 6: [4:21] Yeah. Ukuthi nje it’s something that is centred in people benefiting. It enhances their life.

Interviewer: [4:33] Okay. Okay. Hmm Okay. So now with your understanding of social of social, now, when you put it to social innovation and socially responsible design, what could you guess the definition to be?

Participant 6: [4:46] Um, I think design that it’s just not. Um, like another add on only maybe like another design just for the sake of design. Okay. It is design [5:00] that is geared to, um, responding to a certain, um, problem or addressing a certain issue.

Um, it could be a socially responsible design. Could be also, um, developing existing designs that are responding to responsible design. So, it could be that. That’s what I think. And then the social innovation, uh, basically, um, new ideas, um, new technologies, maybe new manufacturing techniques, new materials, um, that are, um, addressing, um, isocial what, what yeah.

Interviewer: [5:45] Okay, where do? Where does your understanding come from?

Participant 6: [5:47] Uh, I remember there was, there was the, there was, uh, uh, I think a call for entry for, uh, amaentrepreneurs, but it said social entrepreneurs. Then I had to look it up [6:00] and I realized I don’t, I don’t quite fit there. Yeah, so that’s how I knew. Yeah.

Interviewer: [6:06] was it wasn’t a competition?

Participant 6: [6:07] Yeah. It was a competition and there was a lot of money at stake. I was like Hawe ma (oh my gosh) I really need to shift my mind. I need to be more centred because I started seeing a demand was growing in terms of entrepreneurs entering that space and in terms of competitions. Entrepreneurial competition. That’s, that’s the only way I knew because money was involved. So that’s how I knew about it, you know? And I looked it up briefly. I knew immediately ukuthi (that) I don’t think I am addressing this.

Interviewer: [6:43] I’m interested in this. So, this is a recent understanding that you have because of the competition, and how did that competition come into your space, into your sphere?

Participant 6: [6:50] No vele (already) I I I have; I have like newsletters. Of of like entrepreneurship, things that happen in like in South Africa. [7:00] So if there’s an opportunity for me to enter even other people send me things, they’d be like, enter they’re looking for young entrepreneurs who are what what what and then I always go through the criteria and somehow nje I’ll get knocked out social, social or whatever. Or sometimes, I don’t know, sometimes it’s just like. Cause now the thing is like they want to recent graduates. So now I’m getting knocked out, but it’s just like, it’s crazy. Yeah.

Interviewer: [7:32] Okay. And then ah to be in these newsletters, and for people to send them out, how did they come into your sphere? Again?

Participant 6: [7:38] uh it was through running my business and then doing exhibitions and then networking with people, via exhibitions, and then those, those connections that I make. Um, those people, then we stayed in contact and then should something come up on their side, on my side to be we swap information. Yeah

Interviewer: [7:59] Okay. Awesome. [8:00] Um, can I present you with the two definitions of the terms? This one is for socially responsible design, and then I will talk one by one in social innovation, let’s start with social innovations. Um, social innovations are new solutions, products, services, models, markets, or processes that simultaneously meet a social need more effectively than an existing solution and lead to a new or improved capa, capa Jho! Capabilities and relationships and better use of assets and resources. In other words, social innovations are both good for society and in enhance society’s capacity to act.

Do you want to read it again or are you good? What sticks out to you in the definition?

Participant 6: [8:45] Improved capabilities, relationships, and better use of assets and resources.

Interviewer: [8:52] Why does that stick out to you?

Participant 6: [9:00] I don’t know. I think, I think because especially with design, we’re so obsessed with the new, so improved capabilities and better use of assets, meaning meaning it’s an existing item that in design we normally overlook izinto (things) izinto(things) eziexisiting. We want the new trend. What, what’s new? What’s the new slab, what’s the new, what’s the new marble?

You know, it’s all about that. So, I think I like, I like the improved cause. It means ukuthi (that) it is investigated, and it means times are changing, people are changing. And, um, instead of always looking out for the new, we can also find innovation in the existing.

Interviewer: [9:54] Socially responsible design is an attitude that emphasizes the need and experiences of [10:00] people uhm over concerns of form or aesthetics. Socially responsible design responds to all stakeholders, not just client and customers, and examines the consequences of design activity and the potential for design to contribute positively to society to solve societal aspirations and expectations, I. E. Health and lifestyle. What does it sticks out to you?

Participant 6: [10:29] I think I was expecting the uh the. I wasn’t expecting the attitude. I wasn’t expecting that. But masengiyibona (when I see it) yeah. It is Um, experiences of people over concerns of form or aesthetics. [11:10] Mmm hayi, it’s deep. You know what I think neh when I think about this is. We would to do a conference. And we’re talking about design, [11:28] education [11:31] and social design. Now thinking about it now, ukuthi (that) cause mina (my), my thing now is, um, solutions that are in context because most of. Jho I’m gonna start speaking like a politician. But most of the situations, most of, um, the [12:00] designs, let me just say designs. Most of the stuff is, it’s international and brought in. So, I feel like this attitude is an attitude we must have as designers so that we can address our own issues and stop importing solutions that don’t fit us here yabo (you see) in every aspect. Njegoba bekukade kubaliwe la (just like it was written here) From what the health lifestyle in the working world, in every single aspect, this, there’s a huge disconnect. There’s a huge disconnect.

Interviewer: [12:33] very Interesting. I Why were you not expecting the word attitude?

Participant 6: [12:37] Um, because, um, um, um I was thinking, and and and come to think of it is an attitude. Mmm. It it starts, um, it, I think it’s somewhat starts with the whole being selfless and thinking about others. Because when you design like [13:00] we designed even you included ngeke ngibengedwa (I won’t be alone) so even with you and me. It’s, it’s almost like the ego is so present in the process. Where else, where the social. Um, designers, when they do their thing, it’s always geared to the benefit of the people that they might not get anything back from them. And that that is next level of maturity. next level of maturity. Yabo (you see). Well, yeah,

Interviewer: [13:38] I like this concept of ego is very much present. Uh, where do you think this ego. Ego, ego manifestation or the presence of this ego comes from? And what, what do you think pushed and propels it?

Participant 6: [13:54] I think we, funny enough, I think it’s been, actually, it’s embedded in design [14:00] education. I think, um, from the people we study about and their egos and how they were present and how they were, um, um. Like literally criticizing this movement to create their movements, uhm that whole ego driven thing and how they end up being the most famous people that we read about. So, I think we somehow, not even knowing we pick up, we pick up behaviour kaMies Van Der Rohe. And then we carry that, and we want to be the next Mies Van Der Rohe somehow.

You know what I mean? And that’s, and that’s, and that’s what happens. Ukhuthi this thing is actually embedded in the actual education. As you’re studying, it’s drilling into your system ukhuthi (that) one day I want to be a Mies Van Der Rohe and designs like this, like this like this.

Um, but guys who do social design are not on that tip. [15:00] They’re on, like people must live better. People must be healthy. People must, they deserve the equality. They think equality, you know, um, some we think, how can we, how can we, how can we get that person who’s on the other side of equality who’s on the upper side of equality. Where else? These guys, they think everyone in the same playing field. How can they be addressed? And seen the same.

Interviewer: [15:34] Wow Okay, and so with this education, and Mies Van Der Rohe being your idol, what happens when you start entering the working world?

Participant 6: [15:43] You realize that your boss is the Mies Van Der Rohe and chances of you being Van Der Rohe is going to take, it’s going to take time and forever, you know? So then you do what I do, and [16:00] then allow the ego to drive it out the door and go start your own business and do your own egotistical things and, and, and, and, you know, tell people and pull in your own crowd. Because there are people who like the things I like and then create a community, you know? And then we we feed off each other’s egos

Interviewer: [16:23] Okay. And do you think that socially responsible design and social innovation are the same thing, or are they different things?

Participant 6: [16:36] Hmm mmm it’s like, it’s like there’s a one series standard and then there’s a, there’s an M sports one series, and I feel like this is like the spot bag. You know, I feel like somehow this is like the spot bag when you start to come up with these new things, new technologies. Where else in my, in my silly mind, I think ukuthi, you [17:00] can get stuck in this process yesocial responsible. You, you can, you can. It’s almost like you can sell your fruit and veggies in the same spot. Nje just where else? This guy. On this part is literally pushing the envelope is like, I’m taking my fruits and veggies into all the grocery stores. I’m putting them on an app. Um, so, so I’m looking at it in that approach. Yeah.

Interviewer: [17:28] So these are two different things, but the same thing?

Participant 6: [17:30] uhm somewhat.

Interviewer: [17:34] One’s classier here than the other.

Participant 6: [17:35] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think also both. Both, but somehow when you deal with the innovation, both, both they’ve got guts. But this one is kind of gutsy up because the unknown is so much because there was so much room for failure. When, when you’re dealing with the innovation, um, you are testing new stuff, you [18:00] know, you test the new stuff, it might work. It might not work. Um, people might respond to it, might not respond to it. It might be an Epic fail. It might be a huge success.

Interviewer: [18:10] Awesome. Um, what’s your understanding of as a, as a design professional of social change?

Participant 6: [18:28] Equality just came up.

Interviewer: [18:29] Okay.

Participant 6: [18:33] Equality in design

Interviewer: [18:38] as an interior designer,

Participant 6: [18:40] Hayi equality, it has to be.

Interviewer: [18:46] Okay, I’ll present you with three different projects. So, it’s existing and not existing. I’ll explain what I mean.

Participant 6: [18:59] This one is in cape town?

Interviewer: [19:01] Yeah. Do you want to pull this closer to you because I already know want it says? So, what you have in your hand is called Blindsquare. Blindsquare is an app that’s used by visually impaired persons to help them navigate the space inside and outside of a building. The app communicates with those pods, I call them pods on the wall and it kind of tells them the relevant information about where exactly they are Right? This guy over here the one you say you’re familiar with is Urban Thinktank and Urban Thinktank is the reimagining of informal settlements by, um, an international company that’s coming in to collaborate with people from Cape town. And what I like about them is over here is how they, the rendering of what they envisioned to be, where it’s a home at the top, and then it’s your business at the bottom.

Um, and they’ve been able to. Cut that with investments and strategic planning, they’d be able to cut the cost down to about 15%. Um, 14 cents per bill per build for [20:00] the individual. And this is exactly what they’ve built currently in Cape town, and it has many phases. And this was phase two. So they already had an original prototype.

The original prototype had no brick in it, it was only zinc (corrugated iron) phase two has brick in it. Number three is by AFS. AFS is an architectural company based in the US in Minnesota. They have designed a flat packable refugee housing, disaster relief housing. So, if there’s a disaster flooding, typhoon whatever, then you can quickly assemble this up and it creates a home.

Or if like, you know how people were leaving their countries crossing the Mediterranean to go overseas and they had nowhere to stay. You could put that up uhm as temporary shelter. There they have systems like solar power and a rain catchment, so you catch the rainwater from the gutters down into the reservoir which is dug underneath the home to keep the to keep it, to keep, to store the water in. Uhm what’s nice about it is that the second hexagonal shape means that if it’s a big family of like four, six, whatever, larger family, [21:00] you can hook it up to here and it creates a bigger home and then a division within the space change. But additional on top of that, you can create clusters little hexagonal communities. So like a Bee type ariel when you’re looking at it from the ariel its like a that bee type shape of different communities and cluster homes. So what do you think of these projects as an interior designer? And where do you position yourself amongst these projects as an interior designer?

Participant 6: [21:25] mmm mmm heyi! This is not about wallpaper. Um, so I think I can say I am a social designer because we are working on a project yeRDP and looking into, looking into [22:00] primarily right now, the kitchen because it is the heart of the home. Um, uh, so even, even just speaking about that project, the drive for me. Wasn’t as much as a paying customer. You know the customer like I go to and see, you know, I get their work done quicker.

Where else? This project that we doing the RDP projects, like literally it’s something I could think of and be like, Oh, that’s great, but the drive isn’t there because of the money isn’t there? And I think that’s how we I hope it’s different for other people, but that’s how we think sometimes as interior designers and then and it’s a bit sad.

But I think [23:00] as as mina (me), as uh, personally, as I grow, as I’m starting to, you know, even the reason I know about this is because we’re doing this RDP project now. It’s because also, I’ve, uh, I’ve, I’ve, I, you know, I want to create design that benefits people. You know, I’m not, you know, it’s nice. It’s nice. Um, but we, we need to be more into this.

Um, so like interior design could address for an, for a South African context to have this in the township (AFS). Interior design here could address the safety in terms of this not being stolen. Um, you know, in, in terms of this being hidden and, and and literally people not just being like, Oh nayi lento le (oh here is this thing). So, we could [24:00] somehow make it blend in into the whole thing.

So that’s where we start to come in as interior designers are addressing that you might even say maybe there needs to be a certain way. Um, same, same with here (urban thinktank), you know, they’ve cut down on immaterial nani nani. We could look into, um, things like, cause even with, with, um, when we did our thing for the RDP RDP project, we went around and asked a couple of people ukuthi(what) what do they think and.

And, and it’s almost like some people feel like, Oh, it’s built for the sake of building. It’s abandoned then gone (RDP), but interior design that’s where we can come in and then we can create a home where it doesn’t feel like, Oh, it’s just this temporary shelter yabo leyonto (do you see that type of thing)so that people feel [25:00] at home, they feel a sense of wealth value.

So cause as much as you can create a home like this, um, shape honeycomb (AFS). What, what? Um, some people here could feel like they don’t belong. So interior design can create a sense of belonging. When we start to look into how we can then help people personalize these spaces and for them to be comfortable. And to be to be to be. And also pride because for you to, to, to move from, from, I believe from you to move from RDP to a, maybe like a 4-room house, to move to a 4-room to then move to the burbs. And like, there needs to be a realization you would in this situation so ungabi ungabi (not to be) in denial or want you need to [26:00] first. Like exist in the space and know how you got there and how you’ve sustained yourself there and, and what you could you possibly do?

Do you want to move to the next step? Do you want to move to a 4-room house? Do you want to stay there? And then if you want to stay, what sort of changes do you want to make? Or what adjustments do you want to make? So those, those honest conversations that, that then the interior design. That’s where it comes in where it creates a very homely environment.

Interviewer: [26:34] and so design facilitates this honest conversation, but you don’t necessarily have it with people, but you’re having with yourself?

Participant 6: [26:38] Internally with yourself when you’re sitting in your bed in the corner just nje and you’re like, what am I doing with my life type conversation? So those are very important conversations that we all have with ourselves. And that’s the role that the interior design could play. We could foster those conversations with ukuthi (about) where do you see yourself. With the [27:00] aspirations where, where, and also also also, um, not to look down on where you are most importantly not to look down on where you, where you are in that space. Yeah. I think, I think I would do that.

Interviewer: [27:15] Of these three, which one resonates with you most?

Participant 6: [27:19] Jho! Know, I like all of them. Um, because it speaks to, um, the more, the more I grow, the more I realize ukuthi (that) we have made, we’ve made the world. We’ve treated people with disabilities like aliens, um, like the most unwelcome visitors from, from education system, public transport, public buildings, to office environments even in the design industry. How many times have walked into a design studio and there was someone with a disability? Yeah. Yabo. Well. You see, so, so that’s why each each speak to me in a [28:00] different light.

It’s because also I, I’ve been excluded as a black person. Now imagine being excluded as a black with a disability. Where, do you even exist? Are you even alive? You know what I mean? So, so that’s why this one or this project speaks to me so much because it’s speaking about inclusiveness. Sonke (all of us), we are in this mall. We are walking with navigating. We’re in this office park. We’re navigating like normal people, you know.

Interviewer: [28:31] Of these three, how would you categorize them? What would you say is a socially responsible design and what you would consider a social innovation?

Participant 6: [28:38] I would say, I would say this is innovation (Blind square). Not just because of the technology aspect, but I would say innovation because it, remember what his definition spoke about improving what was existing. There was a beep, beep situation, going on with the robots, but it kind of ended in the robots. [29:00] So this kind of like takes that idea and puts it in. It does that yabo (you see). Um, and then. And then this just for me, addressing those responsibility that, um, architecture and interior design, um, have the role that we literally have to play to address these issues and, um, and stop acting like people who are in these situations are the black sheeps or something. Um, and realize ukuthi (that), just people navigating to life.

Participant 6: [29:40] So, so I would say, you know, I’ll also say they are all innovations, you know, but more, you know, here (Blindsquare), um, I think maybe it’s more, you know, because I’m not in this industry. Okay. I can see how this can come into being. [30:00] So maybe that’s why, maybe for someone who is in a different industry, when they see this (Hex House), they can be like, you’re, this is proper innovation. But because I’m used to the built environment, I’m like, Ugh, ignorance type, type thing. Vele (anyway) standard type thing. So, um, sorry. Also, I’ll also say there’s this huge innovation. There’s innovation, here because RDPs were also existing, but then we’re kind of like left ukhuthi (that) Okay, cool. They must change the, this is what it is because of money, because you are poor, you must stay in that whole poor situation. You know what I mean? Why do you deserve like to have like a double story type flat type situation? Isn’t that a little bit fancy? So It’s like addressing also a bit of equality. Ukuthi ukuthi ukuthi Even the shape, you know, I’m sure there are probably architects who looked at this and [31:00] said. Isn’t this a little bit too much, isn’t it? It’s a little bit too suburban. Yeah. Well, but then the social responsibility is now addressing in the equality part. Ukuthi okay cool. If we are building this can’t we build amacomplex eRDP, you know?

Interviewer: [31:18] awesome. So, I just wanted this, a few things that you point out that I want to take you back for a little before we go forward. Just before I go to those two points, you mentioned that the AFS and everything’s like have innovation, but because you’re from the built environments already, you can automate this, that dissecting each project and therefore the innovation almost becomes secondary because you understand the processes.

Whereas the airport is something that you’re not familiar with. So, the innovation is a friend. Cause you wouldn’t know how to go about the process. Right. Okay. So, let me just go back to this whole, uh, blind. If you were saying that as interior designer who could come in where we could help hide, for example, you said the pod for safety [32:00] reasons or how it would look in the space.

Right. I want to know, would you, when they were still developing this app before the part came to be, we are sitting down, this was our initial meeting with these people are going to come out. Would you not be there as an interior designer?

Participant 6: [32:14] I have to be there.

Interviewer: [32:16] What contribution are you making?

Participant 6: [32:20] I am, I’m sitting there, number one, thinking about how people are going to navigate this space as they walk in. Um, because also I don’t want them to be leaning against the wall to touch. I want them to walk as everyone is walking, walk. Yeah. Esiphitiphitini (in the crowd). No, that’s, that’s the type of, that’s the type of issues that I would be addressing ukuthi How can, how can I into design, make sure what, see everyone navigates the space equally, you know, [33:00] whether abled or disabled bodied. And then, and then with that in mind. It will then aid the positioning of these pods and where they go so that they also do not create an exclusion. Ukuthi, okay, cool. Oh, this is where, this is where the parts are, so people who were visually impaired, this is where they walk. So, it’s continuing. The division is division is still continuing.

So as an interior designer, then I’ll be addressing mainly the issue with how people from can all, cause you walk into a building in a mall, you start random conversations with people. So, I will have to make sure ukhuthi (that) regardless of body that, those conversations continue regardless of where the visually impaired or not. So, then the positioning of these things [34:00] are very crucial. To make sure with ukhuthi foster, those relationships, those human interactions.

Interviewer: [34:06] Awesome. You said, I want to create these designs when I showed you these three projects. Oh, why? What’s the drive behind that?

Participant 6: [34:17] yeah, I’m not saying I’ve made millions. Um, but, but you. You know, you reach a point where in life, which is in level of, um, success and then the awards and all of that. It’s kind of like, Hmm, what is this all about? Your kind or get to that point? Um, and then you kind of get to a point where, especially for, cause I’m from the township and then, and then.

You know, I’ve experienced almost all walks of life I’ve experienced. I’ve seen I [35:00] can’t say I’ve experienced poverty, but I’ve seen it, you know, my friends, predominantly my friends from primary were. Um, a lot of them were poor. Um, so w was I navigate funniest thing ukuthi (that) as I grow older. My memory is pulling me back to my friends from eprimary and how and how with those, uh, I don’t want them cause currently right now what’s happening is ukuthi (that) I just keep remembering how we were talking about you’re going to this high school and we’re going to this high school and they high school and they were not talking about that because financially they couldn’t even pay for the primary yabo. So, design. So now I’m starting to think of, of my friends who uhuthi (that) there are the, there’s so many other people who are [36:00] like my friends who can do more. We can create designs that could help people. You know?

Cause also I want to sort of have. That I look at like township, the township, needs to have its own ecosystem. Money need to be literally be somewhat be born there and [36:21] raised there [36:22] and circulate there and not ukuthi when it hits six o’clock, four o’clock everybody wakes up baths and leaves and goes and works in Morningside, in pinetown, you know, and then all the money goes out. So just that whole. That whole inclusion again of the economy. So, the economy must exists in the township because I think that’s when people are going to feel like we [37:00] part of this.

Interviewer: [37:01] Um, the RDP projects, how did you get involved?

Participant 6: [37:03] Was a friend of mine who is. I would say he’s a social person, number one, which is that it’s like a social person number one standard vele he’s a social person. Um, and also because it was a project close to him. And then we had worked at, we’d worked together, I facilitated a workshop a design workshop. So with him that he was heading, and then he invited me over to this project. Um. Yeah. And I said yes to it.

Interviewer: [37:39] is. And you said yes. Why? Because you were just saying that or you’re part of the project, but your drive isn’t there just because of the money. So, what is the acceptance based on?

Participant 6: [37:54] Because I want to do it so my heart wants to do it, yabo but my, [38:00] Kim Kardashian brain is like, yay. You know? Um, but, but I’ve invested time into it. I think also what, what, what makes me lazy in the process is the fact that I am going to have to innovate. So, what makes me slow is the fact that. It’s just like, uh, I know this requires a lot of work because like how did they, they, they discovered how they need to cut down the price and they had phase one. They had phase two, that whole process, cause I saw it when we, when we started yoooyo. So, it’s that whole thing, but I’m still in it.

Interviewer: [38:50] I find it interesting that you say. In the innovation process makes you lazy. What is it about the innovation process? Is it the time? [39:00] Is it that what?

Participant 6: [39:01] I think it’s the, I think it’s the finding the info. I think it is the, the doors. I think I, maybe I’m looking at all the negatives. Maybe the doors being closed because it’s just like, it’s too farfetched type things. I’m sure same thing happened when these guys started (precedents). Probably people were like, you’re, you guys are gonna get butchered by government, you know, cause the tender situation. Cause even now that’s what people are saying. You want to get into this thing, be very careful, safety, uh, your whole wellbeing. So, um, for me it is the innovation aspects, the time that it’s going to take. Um. Um, I think, and I think because I’m so used to things being, [40:00] knowing the material, putting it together, giving it to a manufacturer, then making it, and then the whala, you know what I mean? And then uyiboza ngakokho (you’re the boss because of that). But you kind of know the outcome. Whereas with this. They’re there had to do phase one for them to realize we can actually cut down on, yabo so actually there’s, it does it.

The unknown is what’s also making me a bit like, eh, I’m not sure. Maybe I’m also used to, to, to, to doing something and instantly be glorified for it. So, I can see what’s lana (here). The glorification is not going to be there. So, I might not be on the cover of a magazine, you know, I might not be like at it. Maybe I’ll be on the cover of that [41:00] magazine like 10 years’ time. Five years is time when the project is up and running. Maybe also there’s a bit of that.

Interviewer: [41:09] You mentioned three interesting points. When you mentioned about doors being closed, what doors do you perceive to probably be closed?

Participant 6: [41:21] Mmm well, I think people are so stuck in their ways. Even if I have dealt with so many suppliers. Even when you just simply tell someone, let’s use this material. It could be the biggest hurdle ever to to just jump ship to this material. So, the whole entire process, I think it just reminds me when I started my business and how draining it was. So [42:00] yeah, I think the door’s been closed. It’s just people. Having to be educated about what we want to do and the value of what we want to do. And them seeing that and then also participating in it yabo (you see) and not thinking, Oh, you’re just another crazy person. Um, so I think, yeah.

Interviewer: [42:28] Interesting. And then you mentioned that perhaps, I’m thinking of the negative first now. Oh, what now that I’m reading, they’re coming back to you. What do you think of that comment?

Participant 6: [42:42] It is true. That’s normally my starting point when I start anything ukuthi (what’s) going to go wrong. That’s why I don’t do a lot. Um, it’s, it’s the fear of what could [43:00] possibly go wrong. And, and just the stress and the trauma it that creates and you having to deal with all the things that are going wrong then, uh, and then because the, the what you have to, what you have to do the thing I think w what is it?

What do you have to lose that phrase? What you’ve got to lose? What do you have to lose? I think that’s only kicking in now after I’ve gone through all the all, all the, all the, all the potholes. So now it’s just like, ah, what do you have to lose, only kicks in now. But before vele, I was executing with the fear.

Yeah. Well, because also there’s the fear of not participating. There’s a fear of not doing, is it fear of being left behind? You know. There’s the fear of not being counted amongst.

[44:00]Interviewer: [44:01] Yeah. You mentioned also there’s the challenge of the unknown.

Participant 6: [44:06] Yes. That’s scary. Yeah. Is it going to happen? How is it going to happen? Will it require me to work 24 hours? Will I have to read books? Will I have to sit in a room with professors? Um, will, I have to ask people field research, go and knock-on doors. You know, people who are busy with their lives doing whatever, getting ready for shopping or doing laundry, and me disturbing them, you know, will I to stop people in the road, will I have to be in an uncomfortable position that compromises my ego. That puts me in a, in a, in a fragile, vulnerable position. That I may be perceived a certain way that I don’t want to be [45:00] perceived. Maybe people are gonna look at me like I’m struggling, and I don’t want to be looked at like that.

Interviewer: [45:07] wow, this is such good stuff. I totally hear you.

Participant 6: [45:08] Yeah,

Interviewer: [45:12] you’re okay. Let’s move on. I’m just going to put an asterix here cause I think in my covers again, but I’m just going to.

It’s Mandela day, 67 minutes. In your capacity as an interior designer, you can do anything and everything that you want to do by capacity up in certain side. I don’t necessarily mean limit you to any type of project. I’m just saying as interior design professional, you can do anything and everything.

There’s no budgets, there’s no limitations to what you can do. What would you want to do?

Participant 6: [45:43] Uh huh. Pass on Skill, knowledge and basically how to create wealth within interior design, um, how [46:00] to create something sustainable. Um, especially for, for, for, for black, um, business wellness. You know, the fact that, um. The well-known interior designers in Durban companies, you know, you can’t even list like five in our whole entire city. Mm. Oh, well. So, I mean, I’ll be addressing them because also there’s a huge unemployment rate because a lot of, a lot of students being displaced who are qualified. Um, lot of students being underpaid. So, mina(my) my, my focus also is just like, uh, would definitely be after graduation ukuthi then where do you sit in, [47:00] um, um, also maybe create a body that, um, makes sure that, um, designers are paid what they should be paid.

And then that basically some are just somehow foster igrowth, uh, and inclusion. So, like your program ekanjalo (that’s like that), where, well, what’s, okay cool. Maybe a fresh graduate. How do you create a name for yourself? Of how to get a client? How do you keep a client? How do you go from one client to the next client? How do you build a network? And then once you’ve left someone with that neh, you’ve, you’ve left them with a certain wealth. If they can then live off in that, they can uplift themselves and their families and then through them doing that, other people can look at them [48:00] and follow the same track.

Interviewer: [48:03] Have you been involved in those kinds of projects before or any social or community project before?

Participant 6: [48:13] I think I have I think I have, on my personal capacity now, a lot of young creatives reach out to me and then they ask for advice. So, I’ve, I’ve dished out a whole lot of advice. Also, I’ve helped others financially. I’ve connected people with the right people for things to happen. Um, you know, I’ve kind of like. Helped tell people how to navigate. Basically, tell them the routes that I’ve taken. Which one to to dodge and which one to take. Um, yeah.

Interviewer: [48:53] Um, except for the RDP ho home that you involved in. Now, have you ever been involved in any projects like [49:00] the RDB R D DP home or any social innovation or social responsible project before

Participant 6: [49:07] we used to paint murals? You remember la eDUT efoundation when we foundation students? Yeah. We used to paint murals. We did one, which was part of school curriculum, at foundation we painted, and then there was another one that came up in around June and they were like, this one, you have to. Um, take up your time. It’s not part of the curriculum, the iNkosi Albert Luthuli reached out to the foundation and I was part of it. It was just, it was like a no brainer type situation. Um,

Interviewer: [49:50] why was it a no brainer? Just quickly as you mentioned it,

Participant 6: [49:54] um, I just wanted to do this to, to help, [50:00] I think because I, because mina I’m raised, by people who were too much, helping to a point point some of the people that they were helping. Some of them were used to be like, yo, your grandparents are so stupid. Yeah. Well, but for them, they didn’t want anything in return. So, these people saw it as being stupid.

Interviewer: [50:22] Right. Um, so it was in Prince,

Participant 6: [50:24] I went to paint murals there. Um, what have I done? What else have I done. Not much hey

Xolisa Ndovela: [50:37] in your, in your mainstream university to design program. Maybe something there.

Participant 6: [50:42] Yeah, we did. We did. We did a community project, um, interior design and students. We did, uh, I think we did like three into those, somewhat three in total, somewhere there, uh, [51:00] when we were just basically painting murals. Um, for children’s home and in the iNkosi Albert Luthuli kids with cancer ward, that was fun.

Interviewer: [51:10] And then outside of your university career in your, in your work, professional life, anything else? Um, except for the

Participant 6: [51:19] RDP. Um, there is just like assisting in helping when someone reaches out. Um, it’s not necessarily me initiating. I don’t initiate, Yeah, so it’s just there. It’s space where someone. Um, tells me that they’re doing something. Then if I have whatever I can do, but I don’t have a lot of that happening, now. It used to happen some two years back

Interviewer: [51:52]. Okay. What do you think is the shift now?

Participant 6: [51:57] [52:00] Probably I’m less approachable. Okay. I don’t know. I don’t know. Maybe it’s this, I don’t know. Maybe I’m disappointed. Maybe there isn’t. There’s a persona that people see.

Interviewer: [52:15] Um, you talked about you don’t initiate. Of these three projects, which one would you, do you feel like you as an interior designer, could. Would be comfortable to lead these any three of the early one of these or three or one of these projects.

Participant 6: [52:28] This is, this is standard (AFS)

Interviewer: [52:30] standards every day. All day. Interior design.

Participant 6: [52:33] This is wake up, do it. Okay. Same time. Okay, so this definitely is,

Interviewer: [52:42] wait, hold up. When we need you talk about this project, you are talking about the actual design or the process you’re talking about. I’m assuming these projects have started.

So, so there was, there was a foundation that had to be laid there to be people who are called in, like coming talks with people who are displaced, et cetera, et cetera. So, I’m not [53:00] talking about a design point of view saying, could you lead the whole project from start to end? Okay. Okay, good.

Participant 6: [53:06] mhm mhmh yes I could I think if, if, if I am, if the passion to get people off the streets and displaced in, then definitely. Um. Cause I see myself doing this in the future. Yeah.

Interviewer: [53:25] Okay. Everything tech as well. Easy to need.

Participant 6: [53:29] Not easy to lead, but definitely, yes.

Xolisa Ndovela: [53:34] Why? Why? Why is this one, easier wise, if it’s easier? If the urban think tank,

Participant 6: [53:41] ukuthi? Maybe because I don’t know. I don’t know how shelters work and this situation. I don’t know how it works. Whereas I have first-hand experience with, with literally the politics of RDPs [54:00] or how even just securing one the politics of securing an RDP.

Interviewer: [54:05] Wow. Okay. So.

Participant 6: [54:09] I think what will, what would make me lead this with ease is because I would find the politics as I’m going. Where else here? Yes, so I’ll have to continue and finish because my ego will not let me quit. I have to go on here. I know the politics. I’m literally on my streets. This is my street where I used to where, where I grew up.

And then there’s a row, and then after that row of houses next, it’s literally the largest, um, RDP RDP settlements. Um, I’m not sure if it’s the largest in uMlazi or second largest or third, but it’s probably the top five, second largest third largest there. So, we saw materials being delivered, we saw the houses being built. Um, we saw the commotion that happened, um, [55:00] with the houses falling apart.

Um, we saw people, um, extending the houses and making them bigger. Uh, we saw people being happier. Um, we saw how it cleaned up the space. We saw how people took pride of their house their home. Um. You know, we saw how, because they used to be, they used to be a divide where people at the time when they were shacks, there will be like, when you’re referring to someone, if you live on this side, they’ll be like, usibanibani waseZakheni (so and so from Zakheni) you know and be like oh ukhuluma ngobani? (who are you talking about?) Oh, usibaninibani ohlhala kofour-room (oh, so and so who lives in four room houses) Okay. You know? So, there was this divide way where when the RDPs were built. We started seeing now the pride, um, people lived in RDPs where like now, yes. We are here [56:00] also, you know what I mean? You just something so cool to see me. It now people are not looking down and then people in, in four-room also, cause they, they kind of also took the, they got up to go. So, we are in, you know, so that the whole shift. And then you start seeing people aspiring for more

Interviewer: [56:23] for more blind square as well. Happy to lead that.

Participant 6: [56:30] Yeah. I think I’ll be more happy here because I don’t know, so I will be out. I will be in new turf because I can feel in just myself ukuthi (that). I don’t want to learn another thing about interior design specifically, I find myself drifting to I was looking into, or UX design and all these other things. Yeah. So, I find myself drifting to [57:00] that side, so that’s why I feel like

Interviewer: [57:02] what’s with the drift from interior design to UX? What’s, what’s shifted? Like is it a personal growth thing and I think I don’t hate the industry, or is it like I’m over the industry? What? What’s the shift about?

Participant 6: [57:14] it? I love the industry the industry is great I hate the industry, the people in it. The, the perception that you need to shake, um, just, just, just this, the fact that no, no matter how great or not so great job you do, sometimes skin colour could be cause of business transactions to stop. And with no explanation. Um, at this day and age, where else? Where here. I could be behind the computer. Nobody needs to know [57:53] Nobody needs to know who I am. I’m literally changing lives, doing it, you [58:00] know? Um, where else? Here (Urban ThinkTank), you’re almost forced into the forefront when you people need to see you. They need to know who you are what, what and status is sometimes gets into the injected. Yeah.

Interviewer: [58:20] Which is a barrier?

Participant 6: [58:21] I’m already getting a headache, just thinking about that whole thing. It’s just sometimes as people were doing it, things.

Interviewer: [58:34] Wow. Awesome. Um. I’ve asked you whether you’ve been involved in service, did you have, do you think that interior design has a moral conscience? And what does that moral conscious look like?

Participant 6: [58:52] Hmm. Hmm. I hope I answer this right. Mmm. We, we, we [59:00] address, we address the very important issues in terms of making the psychological effects of human beings in buildings, inside buildings, you know? So, what we do is extremely important because most people are are cooped in buildings. So, our job our job our job, I don’t wanna say, I don’t wanna fully quote what you said. Um, our job is to addresses human comfort. Um, and then human performance in an, in a built environment, um, to peak if it’s required to peak, to rest its required to rest of, to be entertained if it’s required to be entertained, [01:00:00] um, to, to. To I don’t know to relax, to learn if it needs to learn. So, we, we, we, we, we are, we will address all of those different activities that need to happen. And without interior design, chances are those activities won’t happen. Um, or if they happen, they won’t be effective. Yeah.

Interviewer: [01:00:28] Okay. I hear that. But I want to understand how that relates to our moral conscience.

Participant 6: [01:00:34] That’s the thing I do want to quote the moral conduct. Just explain moral conscious

Interviewer: [01:00:41] is that does it have good nembeza (conscious)? And if it does have a nembeza (conscious), what does it look like?

Participant 6: [01:00:52] it doeeeessss I say that on purpose with the sheep with the high pitch voice. It doeeeessss. [01:01:00] Mmm. But you know, stuff like that, it depends on the person. Depends on the individual. Whether they have that in them two, you know. Mmm. It is there. But sometimes when you’re talking pricing it kind of exits, sometimes. You know, when you’re talking, pricing and commissioning and commissions all, that tends to the lack of transparency in so in other departments it is there. It’s thriving, you know what I mean? Um, but all of this depends on the actual person, but it is there for, it is there for able bodied people. Almost like a huge percentage of, of it. Where [01:02:00] else, um, for other people who are not able bodied unembeza (conscience) doesn’t exist. You don’t think about that unless it’s specific requirements. Um, I don’t think I’m even answering that question.

Interviewer: [01:02:26] Okay. You’re good there. Okay. Has social engagement or community engagement always been inherent in interior design? So what I mean by that is, has it always been second nature in interior design?

Participant 6: [01:02:44] community?

Interviewer: [01:02:45] engagement,

Participant 6: [01:02:46] like mauthi (when you say) community? Who is the community?

Interviewer: [01:02:50] Who do you consider to be the community?

Participant 6: [01:02:53] Because then if you’re saying that, um, [01:03:00] was that there is the design and manufacturing community and then outside of that.

Interviewer: [01:03:10] okay, so I’m talking about community at large, not, not the community of design professionals.

Participant 6: [01:03:15] Hayi phela (oh well) community at large. Also even nakhona (there), it’s new. It’s not, it’s not even a thing. Personally, I would say it is not a, a thing that we, that we, that we that we literally, it is embedded in interior design. It Kind of becomes like a personal personal thing. Like you do the personal attitude. That that individual has, who happens to be in an interior design space then chooses to, uh, or it has been presented to us, [01:04:00] especially like in school when you’re studying, but it’s not, um, it’s not luring enough. Like it’s not as glitzy as the other stuff.

So maybe that’s why, we don’t partake in it as much cause there’s no commission there.

Interviewer: [01:04:21] Right. Do you know of any interns and individuals or interns and organization who have bad attitudes need to engage? Is it in your sphere, like examples of engagement? Is it in your sphere?

Participant 6: [01:04:37] Yeah. I’m not sure if this is, but I would say. Like in terms of, yeah. Engagement. Oh yeah. And there’s, there’s this, there’s a specific story, man. [01:05:00] Oh, okay. These guys who make my rugs. They take their off cuts and they give it to the rural woman. Next to close to their factory. And then I think they teach them how to, no they don’t teach the woman cause they already know how to weave. Um, but they kind of help them with that. They give them the material and then they weave it and then they go and they sell it yabo. Um, giving them raw material, uh, opposed to giving them food and money, they ended up giving them raw material. Yeah. But it’s stories like that are not quite popular, but those things happen, but they’re not popular up.

Interviewer: [01:05:44] Especially because you’ve been, some point you’re giving me is not an interior designer. It’s a supplier

Participant 6: [01:05:49] as a supplier. Hmm.

Interviewer: [01:05:52] And so that’s the manufacturing industry

Participant 6: [01:05:52]. Yeah.

Interviewer: [01:05:55] And I’m not really that popular in your sphere. You don’t come across them often.

Participant 6: [01:06:00]. hmuhm

Interviewer: [01:06:01] Okay So to what extent of scope do you think interior designers should be involved in social innovation?

Participant 6: [01:06:07] I think now more than ever, because now I think I keep saying inequality because inequality is so highlighted now and, and um, yeah. And then you can literally, you can create. You can create this glitzy product and all stuff as you want. Um, but you if it’s not changing people’s lives for the better, so we need to then start to move to that. So maybe our media, that specifically addresses interior design, and then maybe needs to start to glorify that. In, it starts to aspire to be in that category when yabo they start to see oohoo [01:07:00] Oh, so now, um, I think at some Cecil and Boyd did something in the Western Cape in terms of a creche or a school. Yeah. But yeah, so more and more of that stuff. Maybe if, if the people, the powers that be. Even international, they made it like a thing and unlike, cause like it’s a thing to use brass. So if it becomes like a thing, then people are going to start to slot it into the project. Okay, cool. As we are doing this project, we’re going to get X amount of commission and then let’s take that money and then let’s put it towards, um. ABC, so maybe you might even find what my goal is. Every time when we do a project, the commission we make from flooring alone goes [01:08:00] to a certain portion of it goes to this yabo (you see).

Interviewer: [01:08:10] um Is there a limit to the type of projects you can work on? So I know you said comfortably these kind projects, you could work on them as an interior designer. Are there types of projects where you were like, interior designers can’t get involved in them or everything’s free game?

Participant 6: [01:08:27] There are projects where it requires expertise, knowledge, depth, depth depth knowledge, like the same way we know how the width of the door is there are certain projects where. You people need to know the temperature of the whatever. So, then we then can be involved in multiple projects. But we need to be extremely transparent with what we know and what is our skillsets and what we are willing to dabble in yabo. So that conversation [01:09:00] transparency. So, this is what I am bringing to the table now, but I can also I can learn ah ah ah slightly quicker. So, you can put me in. This situation also doesn’t necessarily have to be about measurements and specification of this, this, this. It could be something completely off neh because then also we are not robots. We are human beings. We can relate to other people at a human level. So, then we can take off. The interior graduate and put on the human hat and start to relate to other people as human, and you can start to execute things at a human level, um, with, with, with the skill sets of gathering information and then executing things.

Interviewer: [01:09:45] Yeah. Awesome. Um, social, uh, how can social innovation and socially responsible design, so the example of these projects, how can they benefit. The interior design profession, that’s [01:10:00] one. How can they benefit the designer and how can they benefit the end user?

Participant 6: [01:10:06] so the first one is?

Interviewer: [01:10:13] Profession You can look at … if you want

Participant 6: [01:10:14] Professional I think, I think it will become, I think we’ll be doing ourselves a favour, uh, because I think. We might find avenues that we did not expect to because there is this huge talk of things being saturated neh, and it’s all because we’re cooped into our box neh and everyone is coming into this box. So, what needs to happen is we need to get out of this box and and and through all these different things that have happened, find ourselves. Um, in there. So cause what tends to happen is you might get [01:11:00] involved in this project, this RDP project, this project could lead you to another project about a bridge being built somewhere.

Yeah. Well, um, and do, you might not know that you find yourself having to. No, you might do that as a tester. Then the next thing you know, five years down the line, you’ve done like six projects relating to civil engineering or something yabo. Um, so it could open doors. It could open doors for collaboration. It could open doors for, for, for, for in cross-pollination.

Um, also, which might might make things make businesses. Oh, it’s a huge statement. It’s make it more sustainable where the income is not just coming from one source. So, the income is coming from other sources. Yeah. [01:12:00] Yeah. So now we are not as interior designers just looking into, Oh, just that one specific time client towards interior design services could end up being. Someone who knows to do or something else that you’ve done that you can still go back and do. So, you don’t have to wait for people who want their restaurants to be designed you know

Interviewer: [01:12:27] and the end user?

Participant 6: [01:12:31] the person who receives this thing, yeah. Who uses it neh? What was the question?

Interviewer: [01:12:38] How can it benefit them?

Participant 6: [01:12:39] How, how can it benefit them? Jo! Um Uh, I think it benefits could be, uh. [01:13:00] You know, when something is tailored for you, it doesn’t feel like it was a secondary thing. Like I was speaking before about, um, being in a position and then understanding. And then growing. So, so the benefits could be self-actualization. It could be self-growth. Um, also it could, the end user could also be the perpetrator who now disperses this because it’s so good and it has helped them.

I used the word perpetrator so they could actually be the one. Well, now, actually now the executor’s also. [01:14:00] Yeah, well, it’s the same thing. I saw this advert, yaseVilikazi of this guy Vilikazi was doing so much business and what not. People subsequently in his neighbourhoods ended up opening their businesses because of him, because he was so busy. He’s restaurant. People, the neighbours had to open the rooms for people to sleep. So, the homes ended up being, amaBnB yabo.(you see) So that’s, that’s the benefits of the person who benefits from this could actually be the one who actually spreads it. And we might be looking at maybe, um, the executer the social designer being the one, but you might even find the person who benefits from it. It can be the loudest voice. Um, the louder, because also people in that community, they can relate more to that person and they can see the change happening firsthand [01:15:00] and they could want that change for themselves. Unlike, when a fancy designer with an accent comes through, you know, you might be like, yeah, but where else when it’s like, umMdu waseroundini (from the hood), You know, and you see all of this change happening in his life. So, it could have been the end user could actually activate more activities. Yeah.

Interviewer: [01:15:27] I know you’ve just mentioned collaboration, but as we’ve been talking in our conversation, how do you think these three terms, collaboration, design, thinking and education relates to social innovation and socially responsible design?

Participant 6: [01:15:46] I think education, if I’m not, I’m not not sure that I’m going to answer this right, but education, it needs to be more pronounced, so it needs to be louder, especially at this time that [01:16:00] we’re living in neh. Um, so with education, it literally needs to be like second nature. No. Um, it literally needs to be on a weekly basis. It is somewhat, it finds itself there. nje as if like, there’s no other alternative. Like it needs to be. People need to be educated about it.

Um, also collaboration, um, corroborate. Collaboration I think also works based in the absence of uequal. Uh, where you not, Oh, I know this, I know that .So, um, also in collaboration, when, when people have, I’m just talking in general, but when people have, when, when you seen, when there’s a certain level of understanding at a human level, [01:17:00] then the engagement becomes very strong and the output becomes quite effective. So it’s not just a collaboration for the sake of, I’ve seen a lot of design collaborations that have happened, because, um, you are the heat of the moment and where this big company yabo, but it just fizzled out into thin air. So, a lot of money gets burnt. So, I think when, when there’s the human understanding. About your people involved, then they can create a process that creates a really quite effective Collab. They could see growth, unexpected growth. Now in terms of employment industries, um, techniques, materials, um, I, unexpected even job [01:18:00] titles. Being created because now we’ve got these two worlds coming together. We need someone to sort of facilitate something here. To close off the gap that is there. So, there’s this, now, this new job title of this person who really could do really do something

What is design thinking?

Interviewer: [01:18:26] So design thinking is the thinking or a set of tools of how you frame. It’s evidence-based research that you go out as you frame a problem, you come back, you, you brainstorm it, you, it’s the dissecting of a thing to design it. It’s the process of thinking behind designing. There’s like a set of tools that you use to follow.

Participant 6: [01:18:47] that you follow it?

Interviewer: [01:18:49] Yeah. In design thinking

Participant 6: [01:18:50] so I what was the question?

Interviewer: [01:18:53] How does this, how do we, based on everything we’ve talked about, how do you think that design thinking slots into social innovation and socially [01:19:00] responsible design.

Participant 6: [01:19:00] Oh yeah. Then it is important because then it becomes the recipe book of how to execute neh it might not lead to the final execution. Then the recipe book might change uhm because now maybe the, the designer is now dealing more first-hand with people on the ground. And less on the computer. Yeah. So now the recipe now has been forced to add more ingredients into what needs to happen.

Um, so it is important, but also here you might find ukuthi (that). You might find new things to slot into the process. In design thinking because of the uniqueness of that particular area. You know. So, you might find that. They might take [01:20:00] out things that maybe people, the principles that the powers that be of design thinking, those that created design thinking and then you might find you doing a project at eQwaQwa and then you might have to take out some skills or what what and put in things that are suggested by the people of that area. So that’s where it’s, and for it to happen. I think also designers need to be very aware of the takeout the slot, back in the adjustments.

Um, so that as much as this is somewhat of a principle, as much as it’s a principal, but it’s the people somewhere, they have their own principles. So, the also the collaboration of principals for your jo! Jo! I hope I am making sense

Interviewer: [01:20:51] awesome. I just love this part where you said, unexpected job titles. They come up. So, what you saying what ha ha. What do you mean by that?

Participant 6: [01:21:01] Because, um, and especially the job titles is to address the gap. Cause when, when, when, when somehow there’s, you know, there’s always someone in collaboration, someone or a body or a company. That they have more of the power. So, to almost like facilitate. So, no one feels like a smaller fish in the big fish.

You know? You might find yourself creating some sort of a title for someone to, to make sure what’s they are the bridge between this huge experience and this smaller experience. So literally, maybe it’s a gradient like this, so it’s not just these two entities. It is this combined thing that is together and especially now, because we [01:22:00] were even talking the other day ukuthi (that) we didn’t know that there would be social media managers. We didn’t know there was going to be an actual job that was going to be you type and be like, you get paid a salary for to manage this. So that’s what happened. When things change and collaboration starts to happen with this out of the blue. Now these job titles now have to come up. We are in that era where a lot of new job titles are going to come up that we didn’t expect to anticipate.

Interviewer: [01:22:38] What does that mean for the interior design student?

Participant 6: [01:22:41] It means they need to be. They need to be diverse, but they need to first know what is their offering. Yeah. And they need to be experts in it. Yeah. And then they need to see how in them being experts in that, how they can disperse their [01:23:00] skills and also again, in the absence of uequal, so then they can go into an unknown. Unfamiliar territory and exist as an interior design and not be and not fell less then because they’re in a room full of engineers.

Interviewer: [01:23:23] So two interesting points. Where do you say, is there a feeling almost as I know, of, of being less than, that’s one and two, um, they need to know their offering. What do you think is the interior design offering? So my first question is. Do you think they existed less than feeling in interior designers?

Participant 6: [01:23:41] Definitely. Interior designers then they feel less then architects, less quantity surveyors, um, less then, you know, but interior designers, they feel more than decorators. Um, or you know, more than people who are [01:24:00] just styling interiors. Um, so there’s that hierarchy, which is a little bit unnecessary now because also it prohibits collaboration, you know, because, uh, some people are like, you might find a client who wants you to do deco stuff, and you can be like, but we are like a fully blown interior design company into this. They’re not going to do that. But that could have led to something. Um, yeah.

Interviewer: [01:24:28] question? And the other one was, um. It was in my head.

Participant 6: [01:24:36] offering

Interviewer: [01:24:37] yeah students offering

Participant 6: [01:24:39] yeah I think also that for me as an individual now that is self-awareness. To know, to know what makes you tick and to know what sets you apart from everybody else. [01:25:00] You grew up in a, in a, in a world where, um, being by yourself isn’t really quite celebrated. So, when you’re single people like, yo, when are you dating? When you’re dating your, when are you getting married? When you’re a kid by yourself, go play with other kids. So, things like that, I tend to find they sometimes tend to, um, limit self-realization.

So you find people who are not realizing, their. So you know, students need to know who they are and the quality they possess and how unique they are, but most importantly is in their uniqueness in how that is that truly that is the wealth is that they are actually different from everybody else.

They tick differently from everybody else, that they do things their way. Um, and then once they realized it’s okay, cool, they need to then make that [01:26:00] tick somehow, somehow there’s a give and take somehow work into the existing framework exist, but still staying above there, if that even makes sense for me, like for me.

I realized, okay, I wanted to do my thing. So, for me to do my thing, I realized I needed to quit nine to five so I needed to lecture. For me to exist. I still have some sort of a job. So, it’s that whole tactic where you can see where you want to go and you must calculate, and then the different channels and avenues that you must, you must take.

So that also. You do not, you do not suppress your offering. You know, so your offering stays up float and people are fully aware of it. And when opportunities come, they can position you and they can place you place. Um, and [01:27:00] sometimes they can place you without knowing and you might be in a space you don’t know. So, things like that happen where it’s not only as a win, win, win, you know, you can’t control everything

Interviewer: [01:27:10] Just this idea of being less than, do you think it’s affected the capacity or the extent of what interior designers do?

Participant 6: [01:27:16] Yeah, I think it does. I think already interior designers do a lot. Um, but in terms of even even like South African interior designers, they don’t feel greater than designers in London. Yabona leyonto leyo (do you see that thing?). So, in their execution, they executing to mimic what’s happening in London, but not in their greatness yabo (you see). Yeah. Well, even when they have a wealth of experience and money and [01:28:00] infrastructure, you know. When you find, like a young designer. From the UK or from New York. Then you find a designer with like 10 years’ experience, 20 years’ experience feeling less than from like a fresh graduate all because of this whole thing of all they’ve got new technologies, they industry’s faster what what. It’s this whole thing of also us as Africans looking down on what we have and not literally looking at our seeds and planting them and growing this whole thing of as we’re always, always adopting things from abroad, which also will continue this whole feeling of less than. It will not stop until we start to, um, localize things.

Interviewer: [01:28:48] It’s interesting because you were just a few. Moments back, you were saying that if the international people made it a trend, I’m just trying to find the note [01:29:00] then.

Participant 6: [01:29:00] Um, we follow that. We would follow that.

Interviewer: [01:29:03] I just want to see what we’re talking about quickly and I wrote it down. So, there’s, there’s a catch 22, cause yes, plant African seed, but also you’re not going to get anywhere until the international people pick it up

Participant 6: [01:29:17] Yeah.

Interviewer: [01:29:18] Oh yeah, here. We’re talking about how we could use the media to glamorize social innovation and socially responsible design and if international people would start to make it a thing. Then it would work, but at the same time, now we’re talking about how South Africans can grow their own thing. It seems to, how do you balance the scales

Participant 6: [01:29:41] you need to be very clever and you almost need to have, like, I don’t give a F attitude. In order to do that, because I’ve seen other designers do it. You know Um, but I also tend to find what’s, even when I go to that point where I do, I don’t give an [01:30:00] F type. It was because of a certain international approval stamp of approval that I received. Then the, I don’t give a F activated. So it is, it is. It is a catch 22 situation, but somehow it needs to be balanced.

Interviewer: [01:30:24] How can social innovation associate’s wants, were designed to be integrated into intake? Yeah. Sorry. Let me try again. How can socially responsible design or social innovation be introduced into your, in interior design? Do you see it as an integral part of interior design or a specialized part of interior?

Participant 6: [01:30:45] I think at this point we can just make it just like a standard part of it. I think that will make things better. Um, cause, cause I think if it’s, if it’s a separate thing, it will happen the [01:31:00] same thing that is happening with me probably with the RDP projects that I’m part of where you weigh the commission you weigh the non-commission. So if it just becomes an integral part of, it’s because the people need it, you know? Um, also I think it’s just a thought. I think people would take us more seriously if we do it. I think people would take us more seriously, um, with the respect that we want. Mm. Um, when we walk into other professions, professionals. So, um, if we do this, I feel like definitely, yeah.

Interviewer: [01:31:56] It’s an opportunity to realize though, that is a huge one. [01:32:00] How can interior design become more socially innovative? How can we engage more?

Participant 6: [01:32:14] I think it’s just, it’s for me just also goes back to that human connection and being able to see other people. You’ve got to regardless of, so the minute you can see other people, that means the minute you want to start to engage with them. Um, it’s the same way where you have a friend, you engage with your friend when they need help, you assist.

Same thing. They do the same to you. When you need advice, they give you advice. Um, because now also society, um, it’s not just we, we’re doing this to give, you know, there could be society, it could be the teacher. Um, they [01:33:00] could be the, the wayfinder of what’s the new thing? They could be the one to point. This is a direction Yeah and you interior designers need to take.

Interviewer: [01:33:11] Wow. And then, um, so do you know what CPD points are?

Participant 6: [01:33:19] No

Interviewer: [01:33:21] okay. You know the IID? Okay

Participant 6: [01:33:23]. I’ve heard of about the CPD points

Interviewer: [01:33:25] So IID points. So the IID has what they’ve introduced in 2015 continuous professional development points, uhm you need to get 12 points in order for you to keep a membership, I believe, or to qualify for certain benefits. Um, there are seven categories for you to accumulate points across category two is called social responsibility. However, they don’t say that you have to do every category to accumulate these 12 points. You kind of choose. Uh, which category you [01:33:56] should, you want to accumulate your 12 points in, [01:34:00] or what do you think that it should be made mandatory in insert design practice to fulfill all categories, especially category two, in relation to this research, which is social responsibility or pick and choose,

Participant 6: [01:34:14] um, Because we are different we must be allowed to choose Um, but then, um, social could be made with it more emphasis. Um, because also, so I think also it could literally work in our benefits where people just don’t, people don’t know about interior design they can see, which is not just about making things pretty well. Sometimes it just takes. Um, projects that are uplifting for other people to realise [01:35:00] it to wait a minute, is this changing people’s lives and making sense?

So people must exercise the right to choose. Um, but also the social design could be made, especially for South African and African Design. Um, it is, I think it is needed. I think it should be there. You know, when the, when you feel like it’d be right after BBBEE should be social. You know?

Interviewer: [01:35:29] Right.

Participant 6: [01:35:30] Um, so that, you know, that, um, people who are not yet included end up being included. People who don’t we look at them as clients end up being clients.

Interviewer: [01:35:54] Your friend, you’re from RDP. Where is he? What industries is he from?

Participant 6: [01:35:57] he shew! He’s got so many hats. Oh, I don’t want he’s a facilitator. Um, an artist. Uhm He’s from, I dunno, not sure where from, but his home is in Newlands and then he stays here in Glenwood. So

Interviewer: [01:36:32] but he’s not from the built environment? No background in the built environment?

Participant 6: [01:36:36] He is interacting with a lot of people from different backgrounds, backgrounds, he’s got no limits. Nick, and then, um, yeah, so I think based on what he’s into, he will gravitate towards whatever is shifting him.

Interviewer: [01:37:03] Um, what kind of social innovative projects would you like to get involved in? I know that you’re doing the RDP RDP one, and then you also talking about, um, the, uh, person, one of known as skills, but which is also a project, but I’m talking about project as in, but even then, maybe I’m wrong by dictating what kind of project you consider a social innovator, but what projects would you want to be involved in.

Participant 6: [01:37:31] Projects that address, um, anything that has to do with inclusion, accessibility. Okay. You know, anything that has to address inclusion, accessibility. I think that would be fun. I, I had a childhood friend who stopped going to school [01:38:00] This is quite a thing when you have disabilities in it. Somehow, I don’t know what, but I don’t know. But somehow it becomes an obstacle for them to go to school when they, when they are teenagers unlike in primary. Mmm. So, anything that has to do with inclusion, um, there’ll be, there’ll be fun. People are seen in almost the same playing field.

Interviewer: [01:38:43] My study is to establish whether social innovation can be integrated into interior design. And practice more as an ethos for socially responsible design. Do you think it can be done?

Participant 6: [01:38:54] it Can be, and it must, and it’s needed, especially in the African [01:39:00] and the South African context. It is needed.

Interviewer: [01:39:05] Um, when I first started my master’s degree, I had spoken to a few people before and there was, uh, one of the, some of the responses said that social innovation is just hard to do.

What do you think they were operating from? What? What premise do you think they were responding from?

Participant 6: [01:39:23] It’s hard to do. It’s because they have to take themselves out and out of their comfort zone, you know, and, and be vulnerable. Um, and the unknown it’s like when. Which one, which one did I say I would fear to do? I don’t remember.

Interviewer: [01:39:51] It was the UX,

Participant 6: [01:39:53] so yeah, I think we are. I think for me it’s just that just like [01:40:00] people, it just needs to be made glamourous somehow.

Interviewer: [01:40:11] Just sometimes cameras

Participant 6: [01:40:13] just needs to be made glamourous somehow. somehow make glamourous. Somehow just if top billing could come back and just focus on it every week. Everyone would wants to want to do it so that they can appear there, you know? Um, which, which then you can then question the motives, but then you’re not, somehow, it just needs to be on the surface.

So it doesn’t seem like, cause we are saying it’s hard to do. Because we don’t know much about it, but you might find out it isn’t that hard. Like with everything in life. Put your mind into it. Get it done.

Interviewer: [01:40:55] Okay. We, on the last three questions, do you believe there exists a [01:41:00] gap between theory and practice in social innovation? And what do you think influences, um, the, the implementation. I know, ma’am. I’m in a meeting and she

Participant 6: [01:41:17] didn’t, she,

Interviewer: [01:41:22] hi, I didn’t share my, I’m in a meeting. Hello, I’m in a meeting. Then she, this is coloring in a meeting. Need to see you.

I think my recording stopped.

So my question was, do you believe exists, a gap between theory and practice of social innovation, and then what factors influence their [01:42:00] implementation? So. Influences this implementation between theory and practice.

Participant 6: [01:42:16] I think Somehow people who gather theory literature angithi, they’re in their own space and Mmm. In their own comfort, and people who, um, are in the field they are in the field. And somehow sometimes you find there’s the pointing of finger between the two um, those in the field in the person who prefers literature to be in front of a computer. Um, but also I tend to find ukuthi there’s a sense of maybe [01:43:00] sometimes fear of something within, for the people or in the field. There’s something that they fear, about maybe about being in the literature space and then the people in the literature space. There’s such fear about being, there you go. There’s a certain level of exposure that they don’t want. Um, so that’s what, in my books, that’s what the rif raf the gap to exist. Um, um, yeah. But also, yeah. Yo did field once yeah, I guess it is, is it is you need to prepare yourself cause you’re dealing with people’s lives, it’s not just, it’s easier on the computer. Yeah. But in the field you’re [01:44:00] dealing with actual lives, actual, you know, when you’re, when you’re doing the research, finding, asking questions, people will flat out ask you, okay cool. How much money am I going to get? When am I getting these things? You know? And you like, you just still investigating. So that whole skillset of being able to deal with. Those types of questions of those type of sometimes hostile environments, um, dealing with different moods, um, dealing with different people and working the children, I’m not sure of I’m even answering the question, but yeah.

Interviewer: [01:44:35] Yeah. And then, yeah, what do, what, to what extent do you think we can contribute to these kind of projects? And then what would stop, what would hinder stop opiate obstacle for interior designers? Coming into the space.

Participant 6: [01:44:54] What was the first question?

Interviewer: [01:44:56] How much can you contribute to this projects? Great

Participant 6: [01:45:00] I think the same amount we have contributed, um, into just the general design world to, um, is what we can contribute, um, in the social, um, design. Um, somehow we need to stop, um, putting the two as different, even though it is different, but somewhat familiarised and make it and maybe make it the about, make them more visible so it doesn’t feel like an out of body experience. So it doesn’t have to feel like you’re doing chores.

Interviewer: [01:45:44] Oh, yeah.

Participant 6: [01:45:46] So there needs to be a certain way we look at it and that’s why to say if we put a little bit of glamour in it

Interviewer: [01:45:57] what could stop an interior [01:46:00] designers wanting to come into this kind of space, I

Participant 6: [01:46:03] think if, if, if it turns, designers don’t see growth in it. Um, in terms of. Business. Um, if they don’t see that, maybe that could hinder, uh, in terms of revenue, um, uh, in terms of, um, egos not being addressed. So that could hinder the growth if egos are not rewarded. So egos must be rewarded somehow. Um, in terms of the creativity being boxed, it could hinder if there’s too many policies in place, those policies will hinder them wanting to interact because, um, [01:47:00] interior, design industry is quite a liberal with a lot of with with a few statutory situations that you have to go through this channel, go through this channel. So if there is too many doors to many channels. So if there’s too many requests, too many red tapes that you need to pass to participate and you have to wait a period of six months for a response, then that could hinder it.

Interviewer: [01:47:30] Awesome. You focus. What about education? Do you think that interior designer. How do you envision the interior designer who is in this space too? The current interior designer that’s graduating? What, either the same designer or two. This one is this on a different, brilliant,

Participant 6: [01:47:51] somewhat is somewhat is. Um, I think now people are more aware [01:48:00] of, um. They are more aware of what’s happening in the world now. More aware. Also, most importantly world, they’re more aware of what’s happening in their surroundings . So people definitely want to change that. I’ve seen a huge number of instant graduates start their business type thing increase. Uh, also, I’ve seen. People going oh!, I’m not ready for business. Going back to work here. So that liberalness is kind of there now. Where, where else? I personally think before, um, so difficult to speak for other people.

Interviewer: [01:48:54] As you ask yourself as an interior designer, if you’re working on these projects, what kind of skills do you think you need?

Do [01:49:00] you have other schools, you know, or do you wish you had another scan of school skillset?

Participant 6: [01:49:02] I would definitely need to acquire more skills, more people skills, um, that, that is genuine at a professional level that doesn’t come across as condescending. Right. You know, um. So I’ll definitely need more skillsets. I will need to be more open to the unknown and also be brave to share what I know, um, with being firm. Um, yeah.

Interviewer: [01:49:46] What do you as an interior designer, interior design. My last question. What value do you bring to the world?

Participant 6: [01:49:50] For. And then for me, it’s just like for, for, for humans to [01:50:00] exist in interior spaces and then for them to just perform at their peak in those spaces. Um, regardless of what they’re doing. So from, for me, it is to address. Or, like I’ve said before, need to address the different activities that need to happen within different interior interior spaces.

And basically, addressing and knowing those activities, um, and know how they performed. So then, then I can design accordingly. So our job is that, you know, uh, is for human just um, freely exist in spaces with, with, no. Constraints with no limitations with where if these lights go off the windows open, you know, where there’s options, you know, um, if you don’t want to open the whole kitchen door, that’s [01:51:00] half the kitchen door.

Also, um, with those options of just living, uh, yeah, which, which, which then. We’re where we’ve created that, but we need to then create that to the social, um, state. We need to create what we’ve created in this environment and create it also in other communities.

Interviewer: [01:51:32] Do you have any

Participant 6: [01:51:33] closing remarks?

Interviewer: [01:51:37] You want a million?

Participant 6: [01:51:37] 1 million?

Yeah, that’s cute.

[01:52:00] Interviewer: [01:52:28] Okay. So you were saying your closing remarks, thoughts, um, just general fields after our conversation, [01:52:36] if you have any.

Participant 6: I think we just need to do more of this stuff. [01:53:00] I want to do more. You now? Yeah. I want to start this stuff. I think It’s way more rewarding.

APPENDIX C

: Research Interview Guide

INTERVIEW GUIDELINE

Student Name: Xolisa Ndovela

Student number: 20,820,294

Contact no.: [phone]E-mail address: [email protected] or [email protected]

Supervisor: Mrs Michelle Reynolds Co-supervisor: Dr Folasayo Olalere

Contact no.: [phone]Contact no.: [phone]E-mail address: [email protected] E-mail address: [email protected]

Table

(1) What is the current understanding of social innovation and socially responsible design in the selected group of interior designers?
Task or Stimulus	Images of three socially innovative projects, including one that is in interior design or interior design related: Empower shack- Urban-Think Tank Hex House- Architects for Society BlindSquare App- MIPsoft
Initial main Questions		Probes	Prompts
(a) What is your understanding as a design professional of social change?(b) What is your understanding of social innovation? What is your understanding of socially responsible design?(c) Do you think there is a difference between Social innovation and socially responsible design? What is that difference?(d) (How many have the same view)(e) How did you establish this understanding (i.e., education, literature, conference)?		1.Go on 2.Could you explain that further 3.Do you have another understanding?	1.Could you explain that concept to me again? 2.You mentioned that social innovation is … Could you please elaborate on that?
(2) How have the selected group of interior designers been engaging in Socially Responsible Design?
Task or Stimulus	67 Minutes of Mandela Day: (1) Split into groups of two (2) Mandela Day is coming up; as an interior designer, what could or would like to do to lend a hand to the community?
Initial main Questions		Probes	Prompts
(a) Does the interior design profession have a moral conscience, and what does the moral conscience of interior design look like?(b) Do you think community/ societal engagement has been inherent in interior design? Why?(c) What is the scope/ or to what extent should the interior designer be involved in social innovation?(d) What are the perceived limits to the types of projects interior designers can engage in socially responsible design?(e) How can social innovation benefit the interior design profession, designer, and end-user?		1.That is interesting; could you please elaborate. 2.That’s very interesting, had that happened before/again? 3.What did you learn from that?	1.Did that prove beneficial for the profession? 2.You used the word/ term … could you expand on what you meant by it?
(3) How does the selected group of interior designers perceive they could engage in social innovation to be more socially responsible?
Task or Stimulus	Discussion around approaches: (1) Collaboration (2) Design thinking (3) Education (CPD Points)
Initial main Questions		Probes	Prompts
(a) How should socially responsible design for the purpose of social innovation be introduced in interior design/ (as integral or specialised)(b) How can interior design become more socially innovative? (engage)(c) Should socially responsible design for social innovation be made mandatory in interior design practice? Why?(d) What type of socially innovative projects would you like to work on?		1.I see; go on 2.How so? 3.Why do you think that is so? Please elaborate	1.Thank you for your insight; do you think this experience is universal or specific to yourself? 2.Please explain what you mean by that
(4) The study seeks to establish whether social innovation can be integrated into interior design and practised more as an ethos for socially responsible design. (Can it be done?)
Task or Stimulus	Preliminary interview Discussion: Ideas emanating from the three preliminary interviews express that: (1) Social innovation is hard to do (2) Can be done in the context of interior design work
Initial main Questions		Probes	Prompts
(a) Do you believe a gap exists between the theory and practice of social innovation? What factors influence their implementation?(b) To what extent can interior design contribute to social innovation?(c) Could you tell me more about any factors that help or hinder the implementation of social innovation?(d) What value or contribution could interior design make to social innovation? Could you tell me about your views of interior design contribution?		1.I see; go on 2.How so? 3.Why do you think that is so? Please elaborate	1.Thank you for your insight; do you think this experience is universal or specific to yourself? 2.Please explain what you mean by that

Concluding question

• Of all the things we’ve discussed today, what would you say are the most important issues you would like to express about interior design and social innovation?

Conclusion

• Thank you for participating. This has been a very fruitful discussion

• Your opinions will be a valuable asset to the study

• I hope you have found the discussion interesting

• If there is anything you are unhappy with or wish to complain about, please contact my supervisor or speak to me later

• I would like to remind you that any comments featured in the report will be anonymous

• Before you leave, please hand in your completed personal details questionnaire

It is adapted from Hankinson (2012)